I like guns.

[Mike]

It was one of those actual milspec M9's that were built in Italy, imported here, and then rejected by US Military inspectors because of the origin issue. A very few of them were sold to Easy coast police agencies and then sold off to the Civilian market after the cops came to their senses.

These so-called "BERØ" M9's are the closest thing to a USGI M9 (not being confused with a Beretta "commemorative" version) that are available to civilians. And yes, no matter how ridiculous of a gun, it is the current issue sidearm and there is a substantial bump in value for these orphans.

Those other two S&W Revolvers are not "stolen" as was the idea thrown out above. They have a similar ridiculous military history but in their case... they were withdrawn from service as the G had no use for three-fingered pilots! (That is a hint!)

Real interesting. Pretty cool.

It's obvious you're in the camp that switching to the 92 from the 1911 was a huge mistake.

I used to feel much the same since I was such a big fan of the 1911 and have and shoot many of them. I was a 1911 man too. Years later I got my first beretta, it was a 1941 model from WWII and then I got my first full size FS92. Now I have quite a few 92s and have really grown to appreciate the differences between the 1911. I'll tell you, just about every time I have to sit down and clean a couple of 1911s and a couple of 92s, I swing further into the appreciation of the beretta! LOL. As you know filed stipping the 92 is so quick, easy and fool proof even I can do it. My 1911s as great a field strip design as they were in the year 1911 compared to anything else, my God, the fiddling and futzing of getting them apart and back together, avoiding springs shooting into your eye and avoiding the 'idiot scratch' on them!!!! LOL The beretta looks better and better at that point!

But I still like me some 1911's!

And you know the military doctrine is "overwhelming firepower" so 15 versus 7 is never going to win anymore

---------- Post added October 27th, 2013 at 01:48 PM ----------

Might be staged, might be real. In any case, DON'T DO THIS!!

LiveLeak.com - I say dumbest man on earth

HOLY F!!!! That's all I can say!!! I wouldn't have believed anybody would be that stupid had I not seen it.

---------- Post added October 27th, 2013 at 01:53 PM ----------

So, if you purchase a firearm for yourself (and stipulated so on the form) how long must you retain possession before you are able to transfer it to another person, by sale or gift?

I don't believe there is any time stipulations. It's going to come down to the circumstances around the situation and your intentions. Innocent intentions versus intentions obvious to circumvent the back ground check of the person you sold it or gave it to are completely different.

---------- Post added October 27th, 2013 at 12:21 PM ----------

What if all the paperwork says I 'own' the firearm but decide to allow my wife or another to 'use' the firearm?

There is no violation of any federal laws letting another person borrow or use a firearm as long as you don't have knowledge that they have circustances that would prevent them from owning a firearm on their own.

Could your wife legally purchase a firearm on her own? if you believe the answer is yes then you are fine. If you know the answer would be no, then you're breaking the law.

 

[Doc]

Anyone who ever participated in a GUN THREAD on usenet rec.scuba check this box: ◊

Real interesting. Pretty cool.

It's obvious you're in the camp that switching to the 92 from the 1911 was a huge mistake.

No, not really.

I thoroughly studied the Congressional hearings on the adoption of the M9, and it was no less a demonstration of instructed stupidity than the unsolvable puzzle they presented to Georg Luger back in 1908.

If you read the Congressional report, the specs of the M9 was designed around this one firearm, the Beretta m92.

Colt did everything short of a head stand (thus gave us the highly under-rated "Double Eagle") even offering it in 9mm. (I would not have chosen it, anyway, but they make a good nightstand pistol for the average shooter who can't find his Remington 870 when the zombies arrive at 02:00. Prices on them have gone pretty high, but there are occasional bargains tossed on the table at Gun Shows)

The NATO fix was in, they had to select 9mm, calling your pistol an 11.25 was passe and the EU simply couldn't count that high. Okay, 9mm is fine for an officer's last ditch defensive weapon (ornament). The grunts never get them. anyway.

No, 1911's in 45ACP are fun, but their moment (100 years) in the Sun had passed due to technology. More importantly, our Congress was made to be afraid of polymer frame guns.

That would have steered them away from the highly suspicious Glock. Most everyone else in the free world went with that way and has stayed there. I won't launch into a discussion comparing the Glock to all of the now-available polymer variants, suffice to say it was the only polymer option at that time and the G17 has remained essentially unchanged since our fellow NATO members adopted them.

They were also told the double action (double/single) was also a must-have. I can't argue with the logic of that in the hands of our military, but Congress was given no idea as to why that might be important.

That left a few possible manufacturers, most notable S&W on our side of the pond. They smelled a rat and dropped out, leaving only Beretta and SiG. Curiously, SiG was underbid by $1 per unit.

Curiously.

I like the Glock, but to diverge from this a bit, I find that dragging a high cap Glock around in my daily life is a bit of an ordeal- I already lean to the right and have a noticeable limp. In the day, when working in Central America, I had a HK-USPc (the model with the real-big hole on the pointy end), sometimes a G21 and always an AMT-DAO 45 in my BVD's, but those days are no more.

For this point in my life, I picked what I call a "single stack Glock" which is the Walther PPS .40 in .40 Caliber. (I once sat at a conference table where Gaston Glock recoiled upon being asked about producing a single stack. Of course, this is the guy who created the 45GAP, so there's that.) To me, "round count" capacity is a fool's errand. A .40 will do what a .45 can and it takes up the same space as a 9mm. And the PPS (which is no-way "pleasant" to shoot) is 7/8" wide....



Some other .40 cal CCW guns, just for comparison:



The SW4013 is a single stack alloy frame and is highly under-rated. It can be had at a bargain price compared to the EMP40 (1911 shown here in a one-of-a-kind finish color) or the SW4040 which is made of Unobtanium.

 

[Hockeynut]

Considering the lack of shooting they do with their handguns in the military(Or at least when I was in, maybe it be different now) the 9mm is a much better choice mainly because a 9mm is so much easier to shoot when the shooter has almost no experience. I remember the officers in my company shooting their qualification round. What a freakin joke.

 

[letterboy]

the 9mm is a symbol of a true fobbit. . . .

 

[Green_Manelishi]

the 9mm is a symbol of a true fobbit. . . .

Full power 10mm on the other hand is very manly.

 

[Mike]

I love me some 9mm, and Beretta in my opinion makes some amazing firearms, is another legendary arms making company with a respectable history. Get ahold of a Beretta model 34, circa pre WWII and disassemble it in 2 moves, then get ahold of a Luger and start field stripping one and tell me what you think.

I personally wouldn't care if you put a 380, 9mm, 40 or 45acp firearm in front of me, I'd shoot them all well if I needed to.

Remember an achomplished carpenter can build a battleship out of a box of tooth picks, while a poor craftsman always blames his tools. :cool2:

 

[Hockeynut]

the 9mm is a symbol of a true fobbit. . . .

So it's your symbol?

 

[BRT]

As far as strawman purchases, that's another scenario also. If you purchase through a FFL and fill out a form 4473, one of the questions you must answer is if the firearm is for yourself or not. It's very cut and dry. Even without going through a FFL it is a felony to purchase a firearm for someone else knowingly that they aren't legally able to purchase one themselves.

The question actually is if you are buying the firearm on behalf of someone else. I have been told, and don't have proof, that it is legal to buy a firearm as a gift for someone as long as you believe they are legal to own it. Buying it because they gave you money to do it would be on their behalf and illegal.

 

[letterboy]

nah, I carried the almighty M16A2.

the gun they issued to folks the states don't really care about . . . Y

ou ever try and climb in or out of an up armored vehicle or out of a electronics shelter carrying a 4ft long metal staff?

towards the end in Baghdad I carried a fullsize ax. . . the threat for abduction was high but they wouldn't allow us to lock and load. so I carried a sharpened ax from my hmmwv's pioneer kit . . . when we went back to Kuwait my CO locked my ax in a connex and I never saw it again. . . she was afraid I would walk around beuhring with an ax slung on my back and freak out the first cav dorks. . .

 

[PeterNBiddle]

Full power 10mm on the other hand is very manly.

I really don't like the 10MM. I routinely carry 45ACP so it's not that 10mm is a big round. I don't find it to be a good shooting caliber.