OP
superhelix
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UP?...
I hate conforming...
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before you go in the water, from your perspective, facing forward.
The primary hose comes off the right side of the reg, travels down between the plate and wing (or between the wing and your body, if you prefer - NOT inside the webbing of the harness!), then it has to make a 180 to come back up your chest, since the "final approach" is around your neck and into your mouth.
The issue is where that turn is made, and whether there is anything for it to loop around.
You do not want that to be a "fixed" connection (e.g. clipped off), because that makes it hard to deploy it if someone needs the full length.
Stuffing the hose in your waistband also makes it difficult to deploy (and hard to put back if you deploy it and then don't actually need it, or whatever caused the problem gets corrected.)
From what I understand Halcyon doesn't sell the "right pouch" any more, but it is, from my perspective, a near-perfect solution if you're not carrying a canister for a light....
The primary hose comes off the right side of the reg, travels down between the plate and wing (or between the wing and your body, if you prefer - NOT inside the webbing of the harness!), then it has to make a 180 to come back up your chest, since the "final approach" is around your neck and into your mouth.
The issue is where that turn is made, and whether there is anything for it to loop around.
You do not want that to be a "fixed" connection (e.g. clipped off), because that makes it hard to deploy it if someone needs the full length.
Stuffing the hose in your waistband also makes it difficult to deploy (and hard to put back if you deploy it and then don't actually need it, or whatever caused the problem gets corrected.)
From what I understand Halcyon doesn't sell the "right pouch" any more, but it is, from my perspective, a near-perfect solution if you're not carrying a canister for a light....
If it was about hose routing...
You don't need to use a 7' or a 5' but if you are going to bungee your back-up then at least put your primary on a 40" and bring it up under your right arm to your mouth.
Using the 7' hose with the ACBs is not a problem... it hooks under the handle of the ACB just fine... but I personally don't like the ACBs (yes I have actually bought and tried all this stuff... not just looked at pictures on the internet... and I've have sold the stuff that I didn't like on ebay.)
One thing to keep in mind: if you are DMing and are required to have a snorkel attached to your mask you will not want to have the long hose wrapped around the back of your neck... use the 40"
OP
superhelix
Registered
UP,
Thanks for the tip. I will extend my primary hose so that it easily loops under my right arm.
Genesis was asking if you had experience routing the 7' hose while having a UCB... you seem to have answered that it is possible but not preferable.
I take it you are advocating Heath's weight belts instead for use with the DIR hose conf.....
Thanks for the tip. I will extend my primary hose so that it easily loops under my right arm.
Genesis was asking if you had experience routing the 7' hose while having a UCB... you seem to have answered that it is possible but not preferable.
I take it you are advocating Heath's weight belts instead for use with the DIR hose conf.....
Damn, too slow for superhelix but it may help others....
On my last holiday one of the divers was diving with the Scubapro Rec Tek wing with a plastic BP. We were diving 13l steel doubles. I was diving the same wing but with the soft pack that comes as standard - wish I had thought about it before as a BP is certainly better for doubles.
I think a good purchase for travelling would be this kind of wing, plastic BP and the softpack - shouldn't run into too much trouble with prospective employers as you can cover most stuff and it is reasonably light for the pathetically small baggage allowance the airlines insist on.
No not all BP wing divers are DIR - as this board probably knows by now I am not DIR but that is my preferred rig!
I believe there is a DIR scool in SEA somewhere as I am pretty sure the diver I am referring about above (based in Singapore) is DIR and I did not see a bit of halcyon gear on him.....
Jonathan
On my last holiday one of the divers was diving with the Scubapro Rec Tek wing with a plastic BP. We were diving 13l steel doubles. I was diving the same wing but with the soft pack that comes as standard - wish I had thought about it before as a BP is certainly better for doubles.
I think a good purchase for travelling would be this kind of wing, plastic BP and the softpack - shouldn't run into too much trouble with prospective employers as you can cover most stuff and it is reasonably light for the pathetically small baggage allowance the airlines insist on.
No not all BP wing divers are DIR - as this board probably knows by now I am not DIR but that is my preferred rig!
I believe there is a DIR scool in SEA somewhere as I am pretty sure the diver I am referring about above (based in Singapore) is DIR and I did not see a bit of halcyon gear on him.....
Jonathan
tombiowami
Contributor
Just a couple points from my experience...
I have stuffed the 7' hose into my bp webbing many times, pulled it out, put it back, etc. with no problems. This is the way to go if you do not have the can light there. It is the same motion as when using the can light but are not using the light. The light head gets clipped off on the right ring and then the cord/hose gets stuffed into the belt to eliminate snags.
I like this because you just buy the one host which works in all situations, learn it, be done with it.
It is not hard at all to deploy it, it is just part of the s-drill along with the other steps.
The web Halcyon pocket I had and tried and sent it back as it does not bellow so it is very hard to get stuff in and out of easily. It is placed too far back to really reach.
I would say this pocket is not dir at all, as if you do have a can light all of a sudden you have to take the pocket off then put your stuff somewhere else. Why not just put the stuff in thigh pockets, best solution overall, and be done with it?
The web pocket also has a d ring in there to clip stuff off, metal to metal=no no, dir or not.
Lastly, I don't see a solid, well built, aluminum bp being any heavier than plastic. With a singles wing, or even doubles, I do not see a travel issue with the alum bp.
There is a lot of talk at times concerning dir and the focus on equipment. The equipment is really just the tip of the ice berg but because it is so noticeable and tangible, it gets the most observation and comment.
JJ and GI have stated from their perspective a long hose is not needed at all for OW rec dives.
I have seen several Padi and Naui and SSI divers/classes that use the long hose. So it is entirely possible that one could see a dir diver with a 40" primary, and then a Padi diver using a long hose.
UP has excellent points in that many times the DM is a dive shop advertisement, this has nothing to do with dir, it has to do with simple economics and free markets.
I see a lot of people making a big deal over the 7' hose, it is something that is easily taught to a first time in the water diver, not rocket science by any means. It is also very easy to show your buddy if he is not aware of how it works. This is just general pre dive stuff for new buddies, right?
If your new buddy cannot comprehend how the long hose will work then you need a new buddy.
I cannot imagine anyone really comparing ACUAL USEAGE between long and short hose and saying the short is better. It is much harder to maintain good buoyancy/trim with a short hose in a real OOA situation.
Tommy
I have stuffed the 7' hose into my bp webbing many times, pulled it out, put it back, etc. with no problems. This is the way to go if you do not have the can light there. It is the same motion as when using the can light but are not using the light. The light head gets clipped off on the right ring and then the cord/hose gets stuffed into the belt to eliminate snags.
I like this because you just buy the one host which works in all situations, learn it, be done with it.
It is not hard at all to deploy it, it is just part of the s-drill along with the other steps.
The web Halcyon pocket I had and tried and sent it back as it does not bellow so it is very hard to get stuff in and out of easily. It is placed too far back to really reach.
I would say this pocket is not dir at all, as if you do have a can light all of a sudden you have to take the pocket off then put your stuff somewhere else. Why not just put the stuff in thigh pockets, best solution overall, and be done with it?
The web pocket also has a d ring in there to clip stuff off, metal to metal=no no, dir or not.
Lastly, I don't see a solid, well built, aluminum bp being any heavier than plastic. With a singles wing, or even doubles, I do not see a travel issue with the alum bp.
There is a lot of talk at times concerning dir and the focus on equipment. The equipment is really just the tip of the ice berg but because it is so noticeable and tangible, it gets the most observation and comment.
JJ and GI have stated from their perspective a long hose is not needed at all for OW rec dives.
I have seen several Padi and Naui and SSI divers/classes that use the long hose. So it is entirely possible that one could see a dir diver with a 40" primary, and then a Padi diver using a long hose.
UP has excellent points in that many times the DM is a dive shop advertisement, this has nothing to do with dir, it has to do with simple economics and free markets.
I see a lot of people making a big deal over the 7' hose, it is something that is easily taught to a first time in the water diver, not rocket science by any means. It is also very easy to show your buddy if he is not aware of how it works. This is just general pre dive stuff for new buddies, right?
If your new buddy cannot comprehend how the long hose will work then you need a new buddy.
I cannot imagine anyone really comparing ACUAL USEAGE between long and short hose and saying the short is better. It is much harder to maintain good buoyancy/trim with a short hose in a real OOA situation.
Tommy
OP
superhelix
Registered
This is what Jarrod Jablonski, founder of GUE, says about placement of the long hose...of course, he assumes use of a light canister.
Most practitioners of this style have opted for the 7' length (nine is ridiculous and dangerous in most situations and 5' is precariously short in restrictive passage) and then run it down the right side of their body, under a hip mounted light canister, across the chest and around the neck into the mouth. Do not try and wrap this hose around your neck multiple times (this may be quite dangerous) as its deployment will be time consuming and awkward. This system is ideal in that it allows nearly seven feet of house to instantly be available and the remaining two to be deployed with a quick flick of the hand. In addition, the diver can easily return the long hose to its original position. While some styles require another divers assistance, this system allows complete self-sufficiency. Many people argue that this ability to replace your own hose is unnecessary as your deployment occurs only in times of emergency and would therefore eliminate the need to return it to the original position.
Most practitioners of this style have opted for the 7' length (nine is ridiculous and dangerous in most situations and 5' is precariously short in restrictive passage) and then run it down the right side of their body, under a hip mounted light canister, across the chest and around the neck into the mouth. Do not try and wrap this hose around your neck multiple times (this may be quite dangerous) as its deployment will be time consuming and awkward. This system is ideal in that it allows nearly seven feet of house to instantly be available and the remaining two to be deployed with a quick flick of the hand. In addition, the diver can easily return the long hose to its original position. While some styles require another divers assistance, this system allows complete self-sufficiency. Many people argue that this ability to replace your own hose is unnecessary as your deployment occurs only in times of emergency and would therefore eliminate the need to return it to the original position.
I don't know if JJ's quote goes on to counter this argument but:
Since the DIR method of stowing the hose allows for easy replacement, divers find it easy to do OOA drills... while those who stuff their hose are not likely to practice OOA at the beginning of each dive.
So?
Second, the D-ring INSIDE the pouch is to clip things off that are INSIDE. You unclip BEFORE you remove the item from the pouch. Yes, metal-to-metal connections are to be avoided, but if something is INSIDE the pouch it can't hang up on anything - so the argument against metal-to-metal doesn't apply (unless you're making it just to be a purist!)
Second, metal-to-metal isn't forbidden PROVIDED there is a severable link somewhere in the chain. For example, when you clip your primary off its a metal-to-metal link. You put in a "fusable link" - an O-ring or cave line - so that if you need to get it off and the snap freezes you can - with some effort.
Likewise, if I clip off a spare light or mask in the pouch, I arrange things so that while the snap is on the D-ring, there is a "weak point" that I can cut or otherwise sever if I need to get it out and the snap has frozen closed. Thus, the metal-to-metal connection argument is total BS.
I LIKE the D-ring in there, as it gives me a place to clip off things that otherwise would be "loose" inside - and subject to being lost!
Yes, it has to go if you put on a canister light. But in the case where I'm diving in open water, I don't have a canister light. The pouch gives me a place to put things that are out of the way and yet are immediately available if necessary. Things like a lobster gauge or backup dive tables (I use a computer), for example.
Finally, it gives me a good hose-routing location.
I don't claim to be "DIR" nor do I think I ever will be. But elements of the concept appear to have merit to me, and as such I'm trying them out and adopting the parts that make sense for the diving I do.
I don't get into the "religion" part of it, and almost certainly never will.
IMHO religion is a private matter.
Second, the D-ring INSIDE the pouch is to clip things off that are INSIDE. You unclip BEFORE you remove the item from the pouch. Yes, metal-to-metal connections are to be avoided, but if something is INSIDE the pouch it can't hang up on anything - so the argument against metal-to-metal doesn't apply (unless you're making it just to be a purist!)
Second, metal-to-metal isn't forbidden PROVIDED there is a severable link somewhere in the chain. For example, when you clip your primary off its a metal-to-metal link. You put in a "fusable link" - an O-ring or cave line - so that if you need to get it off and the snap freezes you can - with some effort.
Likewise, if I clip off a spare light or mask in the pouch, I arrange things so that while the snap is on the D-ring, there is a "weak point" that I can cut or otherwise sever if I need to get it out and the snap has frozen closed. Thus, the metal-to-metal connection argument is total BS.
I LIKE the D-ring in there, as it gives me a place to clip off things that otherwise would be "loose" inside - and subject to being lost!
Yes, it has to go if you put on a canister light. But in the case where I'm diving in open water, I don't have a canister light. The pouch gives me a place to put things that are out of the way and yet are immediately available if necessary. Things like a lobster gauge or backup dive tables (I use a computer), for example.
Finally, it gives me a good hose-routing location.
I don't claim to be "DIR" nor do I think I ever will be. But elements of the concept appear to have merit to me, and as such I'm trying them out and adopting the parts that make sense for the diving I do.
I don't get into the "religion" part of it, and almost certainly never will.
IMHO religion is a private matter.
OP
superhelix
Registered
But...
JJ says the following (GUE) about this:
The long house is usually "stuffed" during the equipment assembly portion of the dive. The hose must be run so that deployment allows the full length of the hose to be utilized.
also, regarding your last comment...
On a deeper level the Hogarthian configuration is more than a style, it is a system or perhaps more pointedly a process. Every aspect of the true Hogarthian dress is an integrated part of a life support system. Confusion sometimes arises when people try to review or adopt a single part of an integrated process. This system must be looked at and evaluated as a whole where it most effective. Certainly divers may choose to adopt isolated aspects of the system but adopting one aspect of an integrated unit cannot be considered diving Hogarthian.
JJ says the following (GUE) about this:
The long house is usually "stuffed" during the equipment assembly portion of the dive. The hose must be run so that deployment allows the full length of the hose to be utilized.
also, regarding your last comment...
On a deeper level the Hogarthian configuration is more than a style, it is a system or perhaps more pointedly a process. Every aspect of the true Hogarthian dress is an integrated part of a life support system. Confusion sometimes arises when people try to review or adopt a single part of an integrated process. This system must be looked at and evaluated as a whole where it most effective. Certainly divers may choose to adopt isolated aspects of the system but adopting one aspect of an integrated unit cannot be considered diving Hogarthian.
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