I f*** up and I am ashamed

[Edward3c]

No, you won't.

So many people don't believe this. Only an inflated ABLJ will.

@Dody
1. Your basic problem is you have had all your training from one instructor, whom from what you've described in other threads hasn't always followed the syllabus or standards.
2. When you turn up at a new dive operator and they see you’re DM qualification, it won’t matter to them whether your active or not, they will expect a superior level of ability.

 

[ginti]

Isn't that self-evident? Do you really read through the 35 pages of warnings on dive kit instruction manuals? You're supposed to work all this out with independent thought and practice.

Go for a search here on SB. How many threads will you find about weighting issues? Several dozens.

Are all the people starting these threads stupid? No.

Do you know what is obvious? It's just obvious to have weighting issues if one is not taught properly

Are you really a DiveMASTER? That should entail exemplary skills and lots of practice. Will stop there before I'm accused of 'bashing'.

Is your problem that he got a DM card without the experience that you consider sufficient? In this case, you should discuss with the agency and the instuctor(s) that certified him, not with him. He already made it clear that he is not going to lead other divers, at least in these conditions

And by the way, I am not saying these things to defend @Dody at all. I don't know him, but I believe he doesn't need any help. I am highlighting these points because this approach is not constructive, and it's a pity, that's it

 

[Dody]

@Dody

Your diving knowledge is deficient, for any level of training. You have demonstrated this repetitively in your numerous posts.

Very useful.

 

[Dody]

Ouch. Dody the members here are trying to help you. I think perhaps you have been in a rush to get certificates rather than do more different types of dives which test your skills and gain experience.

Could you lead a night dive? How many of your dives have been night dives?

How many dives have you struggled with into a strong current? How many dives have to had to assist another diver who is stressed on a dive? Have you ever assisted a diver who got injured on the dive? Many of us have these experiences and you cannot get them from certifications. We have all made errors on dives.

I am not stupid. Look at my profile. I wrote that I don’t do dry suit, cave diving, wreck penetration, cold waters, depth below 40… I don’t do those because I am not trained for those. I don’t do night dives because I am not trained for night dives.
I have assisted some fellow divers in distress in several occasions. Injuries? Never. I have encountered some very strong currents and I might be sick but I love it. And I know that my experience is very limited. In fact, if my kids want to do scuba diving, I would not trust the DM around the corner. I

 

[Dody]

You are right, i was trying to be calm, because other threads of dody kinda exploded..

But he writes stuff, that is just not true.
He claims he was never warned of underweighted issues. And no one told him new wetsuits need weigth adjustements. But we had a long discussion about this issue and his new wetsuit. His answer was:
"Some tell me that I should dive with 5 kg but I refuse."

His posts doesnt match well.. he asks for advice and then acts like he knows everything better.

I receive some very conflicting advice. I am 5 feet 10 without body fat and some instructors told me that I should not dive with more than 2 kg. But I am smart enough to understand my mistakes.

 

[The Chairman]

I still believe the minimum number of dives and experienced required to do a DM course is too few.

Meh. It's not that much more to become an instructor. It's really not the number, but rather the quality of the dives and training that make the real difference. You can't expect an instructor with crappy trim & buoyancy to produce a competent diver who is in full control. Hell, we've got people on here who go out of their way to tell us that trim and buoyancy are a scam.

The goal of diving for most people, me included, is to have fun. It's not so you guys will approve of how I dive, which is shocking, I know. To me, being in total control is a lot more fun than a lot of the chaos I see. But, there's no doubt about it that many enjoy their diving in spite of being out of control. If their control is so poor that they are a "white knuckle diver", and are always on a precipitous drop or rise in the water column, odds are that they won't be diving for long.

So what's the goal when someone becomes a DM? Yeah: fun. They don't learn the science of trim and buoyancy, because frankly, the industry as a whole doesn't really understand it as that. They tell you that you'll figure it out in a hundred dives or so, when in reality a freshly minted OW diver can accomplish it easily. So why is everyone shocked when DMs don't have the buoyancy they seem to expect they should have? Personally, I think dody has beat himself up enough over this. There's no need for all of us to question his skill level, when it probably exceeds that of most DMs and probably instructors as well. I tell you one thing he's got going for him that all of could emulate: a lack of ego.

It's one thing to be lacking certain skills. It's another problem to be lacking those skills and be so arrogant that you can't see it. Give me a single dodys who is trying to figure out what went wrong over a thousand divers who have no concept things could have gone better. He can and will learn. The other schmos won't and can't. I mean, when is the last time any of us criticized our own diving? When was the last time we were able to admit that to the world? We all make mistakes... at least I know I do. I'll stop making mistakes about the same time as I take my last breath. Vive les erreurs! Embrace them. Learn from them. Admit them. I've made some doozies in my lifetime, both above and under the water.

 

[markmud]

Meh. It's not that much more to become an instructor. It's really not the number, but rather the quality of the dives and training that make the real difference. You can't expect an instructor with crappy trim & buoyancy to produce a competent diver who is in full control. Hell, we've got people on here who go out of their way to tell us that trim and buoyancy are a scam.

The goal of diving for most people, me included, is to have fun. It's not so you guys will approve of how I dive, which is shocking, I know. To me, being in total control is a lot more fun than a lot of the chaos I see. But, there's no doubt about it that many enjoy their diving in spite of being out of control. If their control is so poor that they are a "white knuckle diver", and are always on a precipitous drop or rise in the water column, odds are that they won't be diving for long.

So what's the goal when someone becomes a DM? Yeah: fun. They don't learn the science of trim and buoyancy, because frankly, the industry as a whole doesn't really understand it as that. They tell you that you'll figure it out in a hundred dives or so, when in reality a freshly minted OW diver can accomplish it easily. So why is everyone shocked when DMs don't have the buoyancy they seem to expect they should have? Personally, I think dody has beat himself up enough over this. There's no need for all of us to question his skill level, when it probably exceeds that of most DMs and probably instructors as well. I tell you one thing he's got going for him that all of could emulate: a lack of ego.

It's one thing to be lacking certain skills. It's another problem to be lacking those skills and be so arrogant that you can't see it. Give me a single dodys who is trying to figure out what went wrong over a thousand divers who have no concept things could have gone better. He can and will learn. The other schmos won't and can't. I mean, when is the last time any of us criticized our own diving? When was the last time we were able to admit that to the world? We all make mistakes... at least I know I do. I'll stop making mistakes about the same time as I take my last breath. Vive les erreurs! Embrace them. Learn from them. Admit them. I've made some doozies in my lifetime, both above and under the water.

Thanks Pete for your post! This thread needed it. Don't get me wrong, this is not a "nasty" thread by any means. However, Dody does not need the sanctimonious stuff. I don't feel Dody's problems are totally of his creation. My gut tells me an instructor may be the route of his diving issues.

Pete, I observed you training a class. You were the the epitome of leading/training by example. I had two instructors that were as qualified and as good as you are. One was previously a commercial saturation diver and the other is a pros pro. Their biggest asset was training by example and by being incredible divers. They did not command or dictate, they usually asked questions. They tried to teach us to resolve our own situations by asking obvious questions of ourselves. We studied the basics and then worked through those issues in the water. Like Boyles law.

My point:
Being nice to the OP is not difficult. The best way to be nice is to rephrase a sanctimonious declaration into a question. Use the narrative voice and not the declarative voice. The OP's post title says it all. He is already beating himself up more than we ever could. Why pile on?

Your point about all of us having some deficiencies is absolutely true. You corrected me on the board once regarding my perceived diving skills. You tried informing me that I really am a good diver (context was amateur, not pro level [paraphrased]). I think of myself as a decent diver, but with an asterisk: because I am really just a glorified vacation diver. My attitude keeps my head on a swivel, and keeps me always working on incremental improvement. I try to always have a contingency plan.

I feel Dody is going to become a really good diver. He was able to read and respond to the many pointed posts and not get defensive. He will, I feel through independent learning, and maybe with real professional help, hone his skills further. I feel he will train himself to become the DM he is already credentialed for. Dody tried to be humorous in a few posts--I am sorry so many are tone deaf to humor and sarcasm, even when spelled out for them.

Good luck Dody!
PS: I believe it is time for you to get a new instructor (? yes or no?). Read his/her CV. Verify his creds by talking with students he has trained. I don't know you or your instructor. Just my gut writing here.

 

[The Chairman]

You were the the epitome of leading/training by example.

You are too kind, but your point is true: you can't expect an instructor with little or no clue or care about trim and buoyancy to impart such. I've taken a number of classes, where it seemed my skillset was superior to my instructor. That's not to toot my own horn (toot, toot), but was an indication that I needed a better instructor. There are a few peeps I owe my trim & buoyancy to: Reggie Ross, Jim Wyatt, Tom McCarthy and Mike Brady are the standouts. Of those three, I believe only @Capt Jim Wyatt and Tom McCarthy are still teaching. Yeah, I also owe it to ScubaBoard in general. Like dody, I tossed out ideas only to have them handed back to me in tatters. Sometimes I was partly right, mostly I still had a lot to learn. I still do.

 

[Wibble]

…and some instructors told me that I should not dive with more than 2 kg.

Many instructors say dogmatic things. The challenge with diving, as we all know, is it’s far more subtle.

For example the current drysuit vs. BCD for buoyancy debate rumbling on in another thread. Experienced divers just get on with it even if the instructors said something different.

I’ll try a different angle: in third grade at school (7 yr olds) the teachers say a lot of things to help us understand the basics of what we’re taught. It is only later that we understand that this was the simple explanation, for that topic is more complex.

Dive instructors often say silly things which make no sense when closely examined. Weighing is like that and depends upon a host of factors; the only truths are you need what you need and you need to do a weight check, especially if you’ve been out of the water or diving in a new location.

 

[scubadada]

...I dive with 4kg of lead. I struggle a bit to go down but once I reach 2m with a full tank, it is fine. I hold my 5 m safety stop at the end of the dive with no issue however if I reach 2 meters at the end of the dive, I will surface and will not be able to go down after. Some tell me that I should dive with 5 kg but I refuse...

Hi @Dody

Let's try again. I'll start with a story of my own. I dive a back inflate BC and an AL80 cylinder. I have been diving a 3 mm full suit +/- a 5/3 mm hooded vest for many years through many new wetsuits, with 8 pounds of weight. This allowed me to be neutrally buoyant at my safety stop and then make a nice, slow, controlled ascent to the surface. I recently bought a new 3 mm full suit with a different construction material (Henderson Greenprene). On my first dive in this suit, I found it very difficult to hold the SS and control the ascent. I added a pound of weight for the next dive. This was much better but I was still borderline weighted. I added one more pound of weight and this works well. So now I dive that suit with 10 pounds, rather than my previous 8

It's not how much weight others think you need, or even what you think you need, it's what you really need, based on a valid weight check at the end of your dive. If you are properly weighted, you should not have a problem descending. The weight of gas in your cylinder, that you will consume during the dive, weighs 5 or more pounds, depending on your cylinder size. Trapped air in your BC or wetsuit may impede the descent.

So what bothers me, and perhaps others, is that one would think that the information above would have been taught to you and incorporated into you diving during any or all of your training, up to divemaster. How would you advise others in checking their weighting?