I Don't Understand Dive Shops

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If the course has an official required text, they get money from that as well. Other than that, it is just $20+ dollars for the card (I don't recall the exact number off hand.)

To repeat--the price you pay for a course is determined by the local dive shop or local instructor, and that is where by far most of the money goes. Those are businesses, and getting paid for teaching those classes is how families put meals on their tables.

Yeah, I'm not questioning whether dive shops should be profitable. I'm just trying to get a better handle on the nuts and bolts of how they work. Because in poking around dive shops lately in conjunction with getting serious about looking at gear and more training, I can't figure out how some of them are staying in business. And many aren't. As far as I know, there's not a single dive shop currently open on the Oregon or Washington coast, and hardly any in northern California (having been born in Eureka, I don't consider the Bay Area part of northern California). So I'm all for supporting local dive shops. But I still am mystified by how they work. As far as money, I'd hoped to gift a couple of OW lessons this year, but the local shops have both jacked prices and aren't even doing the holiday discounts they used to do for multiple lesson getters, so I can't do what I can't do; prices are their call and I'm not saying it's the wrong call. But when dive shops are disappearing, I begin to wonder where tanks will get filled.

To my original question, it seems like dive shops do three things: train divers, sell gear, and organize group dives. That first thing I don't think can be outsourced (although I guess some people do their training on vacation), so hopefully that'll help local dive shops stay around. But it also seems that their main training thing is OW courses. Almost all dive shops I've seen have web pages that provide identical information on training, consisting of the PADI (or whatever) flowchart, even though they don't offer most of that training. I'd prefer they say what they offer, and when, and provide specific-to-that-dive-shop information on what's needed to take the course, and what's provided (for example, if they include rental gear with AOW they should say so, or if they're offering a diver propulsion vehicle course they should explain whether people need to already own a scooter). Still, it seems like demand for additional training is so low that there aren't many post-OW courses. Perhaps if more people could afford gear, that would motivate a greater desire for training. And if dive shops marketed themselves. Perhaps it's too expensive to advertise, but at least they could go through their site and get rid of their dead or outdated web pages, and ask if what is there provides interesting and useful information or just fits some template. It also sounds as if it's hard enough to become an instructor, and the shops are paying them so little, that there's an issue there too.

Regarding gear, of course shops are still getting money for mask and fins and whatnot. But maybe not much more. There's a surprising package on sale, but not advertised, at one dive shop in my state that I find very enticing, and has pulled me away from looking at online SCUBA. It was a problem that the sales person didn't know much about the gear when I went in; the reason I'd spend more at a local shop is for service (here's an example of not service: years ago, after getting my daughter a major manufacturer's fins from a local shop that said they'd order the matching mask and snorkel, the shop then said they couldn't get them and so would have to provide them in a non matching color--that's just cheesy, and doesn't inspire loyalty). But I'm still going to look at that package again, hopefully when someone else is in the shop. There are shops that just don't stock much gear, and what they do stock are often not names I recognize, for reasons other people here have explained in this thread, and I don't see the point of walking into those shops. I understand they're between a rock and a hard place. It makes me wonder if the manufacturers aren't thinking things through, because they need to inject some sense into the system too if it's going to work at all, much less if it's to ever take off. Because gear is the thing without which there is no diving. And limiting provision of gear to actual dive shops seems counterproductive.

The third thing, group dives, might work to some degree as a moneymaker to keep dive shops afloat. Perhaps a local club would help non-solitary people get into diving more and spending more. Perhaps tourism trips, which every shop seems to advertise, will keep them afloat, but I doubt it. Travel agencies have died, and a lot of people don't need a dive shop to plan their travel for them either.

So, I appreciate all the insights people have offered. I've learned a lot. Thank you. I'm a little pessimistic, and bemused by the fact that outdoor recreation has taken off so vigorously in recent years but sport diving doesn't seem to have kept pace. But what is, is.

And as far as people who don't like cold water, I enjoy the expansive view of a warm coral reef with big and colorful fish, but I also like climbing down the rocks in the Northwest US and sliding into a surge channel and spending time just looking at a small bit of rock covered by wee little invertebrates like tube worms and nudibranchs. Feels more like home, too.
 
As far as I know, there's not a single dive shop currently open on the Oregon or Washington coast, and hardly any in northern California
Not sure how you are looking.
Here is a map of just the PADI shops in that area. You go to padi.com and click the "find a dive shop" tab.
upload_2018-11-26_12-22-33.png
 
he third thing, group dives, might work to some degree as a moneymaker to keep dive shops afloat.
The ability to earn money through dive travel varies greatly, and I honestly am not sure why. I worked for two dive shops over the years. One of them struggled mightily to make money off of dive travel, and I know they ran some trips at a loss. They got most of their income through gear sales ad instruction. The second employs 4 travel people doing nothing but dive travel, and they do extremely well with that. IMO, they look at instruction as the means by which they get more people on their dive trips.
 
The ability to earn money through dive travel varies greatly, and I honestly am not sure why. I worked for two dive shops over the years. One of them struggled mightily to make money off of dive travel, and I know they ran some trips at a loss. They got most of their income through gear sales ad instruction. The second employs 4 travel people doing nothing but dive travel, and they do extremely well with that. IMO, they look at instruction as the means by which they get more people on their dive trips.
This is the classic "Three E's" of the PADI IDC: Education (classes), Equipment, Entertainment (mainly travel). How to balance your business plan between those three areas is the key. Forget Education, except for maybe technical and professional classes. Forget Equipment, now that you can get everything but air fills on-line. You better have a good travel program!
 
Not sure how you are looking.
Here is a map of just the PADI shops in that area. You go to padi.com and click the "find a dive shop" tab.
View attachment 491092

Only one of those dive shops is on the coast, the Crescent City, California one, and it does appear to still be open. Nothing on the Oregon or Washington coast. When I grew up in Oregon, there used to be a four dive shops on the Oregon coast at once. Those dive shops on the map are inland. The ones in Oregon are over the coast range and in the Willamette Valley. If I still lived back home I'd have to drive two to three hours for an air fill now.

Whoops! I see there's a relatively new NAUI shop across Humboldt Bay from Eureka.

I shouldn't complain, I guess. Most people shouldn't be diving the coast, as it's not exactly safe or easy or, on most days, even possible.
 
Only one of those dive shops is on the coast.
I've travelled that whole coast decades ago. Checked a map and there aren't a lot of options for businesses on the Wash. coast, unless they've connected those sparsely populated roads. Doesn't explain why all of the shops in Oreg. are basically inland on the interstate though, as the coast road is continual and runs through some decent size towns, unlike in Wash.
 
Only one of those dive shops is on the coast.
And it looks like Crescent City, not Oregon.
Diving is dying because it’s out of the public eye and not a “thing” anymore.
The gear is expensive and there’s too much of it they are told they need, plus people don’t want to commit to that much training just so they can spend thousands more to fly somewhere to do the sport. If they want to poke their heads underwater to see what it looks like they’ll snorkel.
Regardless of what you hear about the economy, money is still tight.
Scuba has become a luxury sport, and the fact still remains not many people are cut out for it.
 
To my original question, it seems like dive shops do three things: train divers, sell gear, and organize group dives.
For most there are four main profit centers. Education, gear/equipment, travel and repair.
 
I keep thinking of more questions, out of curiosity. Are rentals usually a loss leader or a profit maker? Seems like a large up front investment.
 
And it looks like Crescent City, not Oregon.
Diving is dying because it’s out of the public eye and not a “thing” anymore.
The gear is expensive and there’s too much of it they are told they need, plus people don’t want to commit to that much training just so they can spend thousands more to fly somewhere to do the sport. If they want to poke their heads underwater to see what it looks like they’ll snorkel.
Regardless of what you hear about the economy, money is still tight.
Scuba has become a luxury sport, and the fact still remains not many people are cut out for it.

I recall an article or post I read a couple of years ago that discussed the decline of diving amonst millenials...it postulated that it is not really in decline but is pushing the industry to transform in a way that the industry is not comfortable based on the current paradigm. It spoke about how diving is gear intensive which is then becomes space intensive. Millenials, it mentioned typically are living in smaller apartments in urban areas, they lack the space to store gobs of diving equipment, mountain bikes, or whatever other recreational activity. The average new diver will conduct only a few dives a year at most, the overhead on equipment and the space to store that equipment is not very cost effective to someone who only wants to dive occasionally and in warmer/clearer waters. The idea of diving in cold, murky waters is very appealing and lacks the rewards that many new divers are looking for. The adage of diving in s****y conditions will make you a better diver when the conditions are better is only good for those who really care. The article points out that the mentality of millenials is that they are looking for "experiences"...not life long certifications. They want to be able to say "been there, done that!" regardless of whether their experience is profound or not. With discovery diving programs there is less of a need for open water training. In addition, with 2 day certifications where one can blitz through e-learning on there own and just hop in the water on vacation to get certified, it often leaves one wondering why one would pay more and devote more time to the certification process. The idea that one can scuba dive one weekend and sky dive the next without any commitment to gear is growing mentality. And the whole gear issue is another thing that has been tackled in many threads on SB....look how many people have invested in equipment, look at how many shops push their students to purchase equipment up front before know what they really want/need. I have seen students buy equipment because they see their instructor uses that particular piece of gear...it is common for new divers in our club to purchase the same computer as the instructor who certified them because "it must be good if the instructor is using it"...not realizing that the instructor is only using that computer because he doesn't plan to replace it until it fails and is not using it because it is still considered good or not. Purchasing a regulator set that the average person will use maybe 10 times in their first year and then maybe 2-3 times the second year and then it needs a full overhaul at nearly 50 %-75% of the price of new is not a cost solution for young urbanites....then as their frequency of diving declines further, the cost to maintain their "life support" equipment does go away as it will need/should be serviced before using even if it was stored and unused during the period of non-use. Investing in a form fitting wetsuit that may not fit in a couple years time due to weight loss or more likely gain adds to the equation of whether it is worth it. The cost of owning a tank is rediculous unless one is diving on a regular basis...and in the US/Canada where a visual inspection is mandatory every year instead of at the halfway point between hydros like in Europe is just another financial barrier to aquiring and owning gear. The question often comes up: "where will people go to fill their tanks if all the shop's close?" ...I did some diving along the cost of the netherlands....it was common to find a trailer or small building with a coin operated fill station....there is no reason why some enterprising individuals could not take advantage of that paradigm and set up shop on the weekends at popular dive sites. There has been a rise in freelance mobile bicycle repair providers at trail heads and along rail to trail intersections/parking lots...why not something similar for SCUBA? Bicycle co-ops where one can pay to use the shop and ask for help have cropped up all around urban centers...there is little voodoo in overhauling and adjusting a regulator...perhaps this is model that should/could be explored. The reality is that shops tend to not want to invest in stocking products that don't have high turnover and the stuff does have high turnover is typically the stuff that most new divers don't really need but shops are more than happy to take their hard earned cash...when the new diver eventually discovers this they lose respect for the shop and the industry in general. The idea of a shop ordering stuff they refust to stock is failed approach to a s***y business model....this approach is parly to blame for decimating the brick and mortar cycling industry....many find there is little value in taking the time to drive to a shop only to find they don't have what they need/want and the shop is recommending they order it for them only for the customer to have to drive home and then drive back to pick the product up when it eventually arrives at the shop...it is often found to be more time and cost effective to just order off the internet and have it delivered in 24-48 hours...sometimes even less. In the cycling industry this has led to brick and mortar shops being used to try stuff on that will eventually be purchase on line...but then you have sites like Zappos where you can buy 2 or 3 sizes, have it shipped to you in very little time, and then return the items that don't fit at little to no additional cost. It is often cited that the benefit of a bicycle shop or a dive shop is the "relationship"...that is a bucket that only holds water as long as the people on the other side of the counter are appealing to develop that relationship with...great shops with great folks like DRIS are few and far between...and the only reason to develop a relationship is if you are going to participate avidly in the activity...I get great customer service from DRIS and I don't have a personal relationship with them...I don't even live on the same continent...same is true of DGX. Companies like Deep 6 Gear are pushing for changes in the industry by offering parts kits and making it easy to send the gear you purchase from them back to them for service if desired...they are also making it attainable to learn how to service gear oneself...why do I need to put up with often times dodgy customer service, or folks that don't know much about the products they are selling or the products the customer wants to buy that they don't carry? The idea that "tech diving" is increasingly becoming part of the recreational diver training continuum promotes the idea of knowing ones equipment and being prepared to service it in order to deal with and/or prevent equipment casualties and failures. The current dive shop business model is failing and needs overhauling....what the future looks like is unclear at the present moment but as market costs go up and folks become tighter with the expendable portion of their income, if there is no change in the industry it is predictable that more and more shops will be closing their doors.

-Z
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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