I am a little nervous

[FishOutUvH2O]

It is an non issue unless your ill trained or not comfortable!

Interesting and absolutely absurd statement. Thank you for that.

ScubaSteve001- As a fairly new diver I try to listen to and understand everyone's opinion to help further my knowledge, from the diver that's fresh out of OW, to the divers that have been around so long that they learned to dive using an overturned wooden bucket. But that's a little difficult to do when all you give is the conclusion and not the premise. . . Could you expand a little on your response? At first glance PapaBear's statement seems reasonable.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Sorry Fish....I really thought that it would be pretty obvious based on the context of the thread. My explanation:

How can anybody establish that a diver is "ill trained" simply because their opinion is that the AirII is a poor product? That is a pretty crazy statement. I will not try to estimate the number but there are probably VERY FEW people out there (some with 5 dives and some with 3000+ dives) who received OW training involving AirII. I would welcome the information but along with the number that receieved such training, it would be important to include when the training occurred and through which agency.

I hope this clarifies my previous "brief" response.

ScubaSteve001- As a fairly new diver I try to listen to and understand everyone's opinion to help further my knowledge, from the diver that's fresh out of OW, to the divers that have been around so long that they learned to dive using an overturned wooden bucket. But that's a little difficult to do when all you give is the conclusion and not the premise. . . Could you expand a little on your response? At first glance PapaBear's statement seems reasonable.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

Sorry Fish....I really thought that it would be pretty obvious based on the context of the thread. My explanation:

How can anybody establish that a diver is "ill trained" simply because their opinion is that the AirII is a poor product? That is a pretty crazy statement. I will not try to estimate the number but there are probably VERY FEW people out there (some with 5 dives and some with 3000+ dives) who received OW training involving AirII. I would welcome the information but along with the number that receieved such training, it would be important to include when the training occurred and through which agency.

I hope this clarifies my previous "brief" response.

I appreciate it. I guess I'm reading PapaBear's post a little different. What I understand that statement to mean, based on the context in his entire post, is that any piece of equipment is dangerous if it's being used by a diver not properly trained on it, or isn't comfortable using it.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I appreciate it. I guess I'm reading PapaBear's post a little different. What I understand that statement to mean, based on the context in his entire post, is that any piece of equipment is dangerous if it's being used by a diver not properly trained on it, or isn't comfortable using it.

I disagree. His post was about the AirII as has been this entire thread. He made the claim that if you were not properly trained (ill trained) you would have an issue with the AirII. Thus implying that the many divers out there that do not like the concept of the AirII (for our own reasons) are ill trained. I dislike it for my reasons. Others like it. I do not make claims that because they like it they are poorly trained because that would be ridiculous (as it is the other way around).

I stand behind the AirII and would endorse the concept and the gear! It is an non issue unless your ill trained or not comfortable!

 

[sabbath999]

I will not try to estimate the number but there are probably VERY FEW people out there (some with 5 dives and some with 3000+ dives) who received OW training involving AirII. I would welcome the information but along with the number that receieved such training, it would be important to include when the training occurred and through which agency.

I am a NOOB trained 2 months ago (now 9 dives total), and we were trained on both the AIRII and Octo. PADI Open Water shop. Our OW instructor, additionally, had one of his DM's don several different rigs showing the different configurations that one would commonly see, including octo/long hose, AIRII and standard octo... and he trained us in how to buddy up with all of them, because he told us that we wouldn't know what to expect out of an insta-buddy and wanted us to be ready for the most common configurations.

Additionally, I know that AIRII has been part of the PADI course since the early 1990's, because I bought an OLD copy of PADI's OW training videos off of eBay just to see what had been changed over the years (I believe it was filmed in 1993 and published in 1994... 14 years ago) and the AIRII is featured alongside the Octo in it as well. If you would like screen shots to show you, I can do that since I transfered them to digital.

A complete side note, I found the old videos MUCH better training than the one they put out now... the newer ones are significantly "dumbed down" vs. what was being done in the early 90's.

I am a NOOB so I am basically shutting up and listening to the more experienced heads around here on this subject, I just wanted to answer your question since it is one of the few diving related questions I actually CAN answer... I have a funny feeling after talking to some people that my OW class was a lot more detailed and complete than many other received... I took it from members of the cave-diving community, and I am starting to realize that might have actually been a very good decision since people who have been cave diving for 20+years and have thousands of logged cave dives kind of know what they are talking about when it comes to safety.

 

[ScubaSteve]

........If you would like screen shots to show you, I can do that since I transfered them to digital.......... I have a funny feeling after talking to some people that my OW class was a lot more detailed and complete than many other received............

To the first part, I trust you are not making it up.

To the second part, you are correct about your instruction including more than many others. I can speak for myself (originally PADI trained but not in Canada) but there was zero, zilch, nuttin' in the training about AirII. And that was only 6 years ago. I also know that someone has to request training on it for at least one of the local shops (NAUI) to include it in the training - this is where my dive buddy certified (5 years ago). So I can speak from experience that it is not part of all training (PADI or otherwise). Perhaps all of these places should be closed down because they are not forcing the AirII on the customer in the training. And by the way, just because it is written in a book or is present in a video, does not mean it is trained. HUGE difference. The Agency dictates the minimum skills that absolutely musdt be trained and how they must be trained (I believe) and if the instructor chooses to do more, then I suppose that is there choice. The question now becomes, does PADI or any other agency state that every candidate MUST fulfill all skills on both the octo AND the AirII (in concept) and when did this take effect? I do not know this but this would state what should be trained. Not what is in a book.

Or perhaps the AirII is not mandatory training with some or all agencies because it was never the most common. This would need to be clarified by a suitably knowledgeable person because I truly do not know. It would make perfect sense that agencies do train based on 100% of the gear configurations out there. We would all still be in class and would never get out diving. They would train based on the most common configurations which I would expect did not include AirII until recently when it just became the norm on most new BC's. Again, this part is not written as fact and can be verified by people from every agency.

And my point still stands. Because a diver was not trained on the AirII, it does not mean they are ill trained. Just because a diver was trained on it does not mean they are well trained. I am certain that there are just as many Darwin Award Candidates toting AirII's as there is toting Octo's.

 

[JohnE]

I made that same mistake two weeks ago in a rescue exercise. I wasn't the person's buddy. I wasn't familiar with the buttons on it. After removing the BCD I went to give it some more inflate to make sure it didn't sink and I deflated what was there. Luckily I still had my other hand on the bcd too. I didn't even notice the smaller button (inflate). I know now.

 

[FritzCat66]

The best solution during the pre-dive is to make sure you don't have a buddy. That solves all these problems.

LOL! Yup, ditch the buddy, get a pony (or doubles), go solo, and use whatever quirky equipment you want, as long as it works FOR YOU. That's really Doing It Right in my book.

I like my Air2, but of course it almost never gets used. Pony reg is necklaced, that's my real backup.

Oh, and I also like the Aqualung/SeaQuest QD inflator... solves the problem of BC inflation/deflation when using the Air2, but I use it all the time anyway. I really like how it vents both the shoulder and fanny BC valves at once. I've had it so long my hand intuitively goes down to just below my pocket for that lever whenever I need to adjust buoyancy - I have to think if I want to use the inflator on my Air2.

Seriously though, when I do have a buddy I go over how to ditch weights, how to use whatever BC inflator we each have, and how we plan to share air if necessary. There are so many variations in equipment out there, you pretty much just have to, every time. On a Florida dive boat, even a DIR diver is just another diver with another weird equipment configuration relative to everyone else.

Just don't tell them that.

>*< Fritz

 

[ScubaSteve]

......Seriously though, when I do have a buddy I go over how to ditch weights, how to use whatever BC inflator we each have, and how we plan to share air if necessary. There are so many variations in equipment out there, you pretty much just have to, every time. On a Florida dive boat, even a DIR diver is just another diver with another weird equipment configuration relative to everyone else........

From all the opinions and statements shared in this thread, this has been said many times, and is still the most valuable point made in 100+ posts. No matter what we have or think of specific pieces of equipment, this will get past almost all of them and make for what should be a safe and enjoyable dive.

 

[Avonthediver]

i'v been diving an air2 for over 10 years and have had no problems.
just keep it in good working order and its a great way to stream line your setup!