Hydro Atlantic and other deep wrecks without Tech training

[daniel f aleman]

First of all, the origional poster asked if there were boats that would "only take tech-certified divers on trips to deep wrecks such as the Hydro?"

Second, nobody asked for opinions of diving the Hydro on air, with or/without technical training.

Third, I dived deep (130fsw-250fsw) wrecks for two decades, I'm still here. Deep diving can be done, has been done, and will been on air by non-tec trained divers; knowing how to do it makes you a better diver.

 

[cdtgray]

To Daniel-

To your first point, in fairness, you are leaving out half of what the original poster stated. The subject line of the post suggests that the poster does not have any technical training and is looking for a boat that would take him to deep wrecks in the area without having such training. The phrasing of his statement within the post itself is asking the same as the subject line in the reverse manner.

On your second point, you are right that he never asked anyone if he should dive the hydro using air with or without training. Yet when people who have actually done dives on that wreck recommend against doing exactly that - you can hardly blame those of us that know better from trying to deter someone from making a potentially deadly decision.

As for your last point, yes it is possible to safely conduct deep dives, even on air (I'll probably be slammed for the air comment as it is). To suggest though that a diver with only 101-200 dives (his profile) should go ahead and conduct deep air dives without any training is downright irresponsible of you as a dive professional.

 

[plongeursousmarin]

To Daniel-

To your first point, in fairness, you are leaving out half of what the original poster stated. The subject line of the post suggests that the poster does not have any technical training and is looking for a boat that would take him to deep wrecks in the area without having such training. The phrasing of his statement within the post itself is asking the same as the subject line in the reverse manner.

On your second point, you are right that he never asked anyone if he should dive the hydro using air with or without training. Yet when people who have actually done dives on that wreck recommend against doing exactly that - you can hardly blame those of us that know better from trying to deter someone from making a potentially deadly decision.

As for your last point, yes it is possible to safely conduct deep dives, even on air (I'll probably be slammed for the air comment as it is). To suggest though that a diver with only 101-200 dives (his profile) should go ahead and conduct deep air dives without any training is downright irresponsible of you as a dive professional.

Well it was not my intention to start an argument. Like you said I was wondering if charter boats do take non-tech trained (and by that I meant mixed gases, deco, etc.) rec divers out on those sites, nothing more nothing less. As the discussion heats up I kind of see daniel's point. I mean what were people doing 10, 15 years ago when there was no trimix? Stay at 130 feet? I don't think so. So that was basically my question, if it was done then, is it still done and if not is it because you have to be tech certified. And even tech certification is open to interpretation. Is extended range training (on air then) considered "tech", or would the charter say no if they realize you're diving solely on air? Here again I'm not knocking trimix. I'm just wondering if at this point deep diving means "trimix, period".
Thanks for the opinions.

 

[Soggy]

I mean what were people doing 10, 15 years ago when there was no trimix? Stay at 130 feet? I don't think so. So that was basically my question, if it was done then, is it still done and if not is it because you have to be tech certified.

Yeah, and a lot of them died, too. Learn from their mistakes...do the training and learn the skills to do the dives safely or don't do them at all. Being a tech diver isn't as simple as strapping on a set of doubles and a deco bottle and running a profile on vplanner. You are in an overhead environment once you have a mandatory decompression obligation which means that any problems that occur underwater must be solved underwater. Stop and think about what that means.

Don't be a statistic!

And even tech certification is open to interpretation. Is extended range training (on air then) considered "tech", or would the charter say no if they realize you're diving solely on air?

Most reputable operations will not take people out to wrecks deeper than 130 fsw without being on trimix. Many will ask you and even check your analysis stickers before your board or get in the water. Extended Range (Deep air) training is an outdated course that many organizations are phasing out as they recognize that deep air is pointless and dangerous.

Here again I'm not knocking trimix. I'm just wondering if at this point deep diving means "trimix, period".

If you are smart, yes, diving below 100-130ft means trimix or don't do the dive at all. It was done in the past, but at the expense of a lot of lives. With the exception of remote diving locations, there is no reason in the world not to dive mix unless you are just too damn cheap. That's called nickelrocketry and it has claimed a number of lives.

 

[Walter]

Respectfully, this is not an ADVANCED dive, this is a TECH DIVE - Period.

That's a meaningless statement. It is a deep wreck. It is a truly advanced dive. Unfortunately, folks with an AOW card think they are advanced divers. They aren't.

The top of the Hydro is only 150.

It's quite a bit shallower than that. You can have quite a nice dive on the Hydro without hitting 150.

does anyone know if dive ops around Ft Lauderdale/Pompano only take tech-certified divers on trips to deep wrecks such as the Hydro?

Some will, but usually they'll only take you if they're familiar with you and your ability.

 

[100days-a-year]

Find some experienced buddies,preferably with a suitable boat.Develop the skills needed over time and take at least a deco class.
Asking questions here often leads to cyber-diver-extremist lunacy telling you'll die if you get in the ocean without helium or the other extreme that do 300' bounces on air in a single tank.

In Fla... 150' on air has killed exactly how many people?And where are these statistics available?And which coroner's office certified the cause of death?Most of the deaths here I've read about that involved deep dives were on rebreathers.

 

[Soggy]

In Fla... 150' on air has killed exactly how many people?And where are these statistics available?And which coroner's office certified the cause of death?Most of the deaths here I've read about that involved deep dives were on rebreathers.

What does Florida have to do with it? Narced is narced....It doesn't matter if you are in Florida, Cozumel, Bonaire, or New Jersey. It is foolish to dive deep on air when there are better and safer alternatives. Nobody ever certifies the cause of death as "was diving air", but diving air leads to heavy impairment which leads to poor decisions and/or panic. The *only* reason to dive air is if you are too cheap to buy trimix, in which case, you shouldn't be tech diving.

Yes, I understand there are some remote areas of the world where trimix is not available for whatever reason, but Florida certainly isn't one of those areas.

 

[daniel f aleman]

To Daniel-


1) On your second point, you are right that he never asked anyone if he should dive the hydro using air with or without training.

2) Yet when people who have actually done dives on that wreck recommend against doing exactly that - you can hardly blame those of us that know better from trying to deter someone from making a potentially deadly decision.

3) As for your last point, yes it is possible to safely conduct deep dives, even on air (I'll probably be slammed for the air comment as it is). To suggest though that a diver with only 101-200 dives (his profile) should go ahead and conduct deep air dives without any training is downright irresponsible of you as a dive professional.

1) I do not advocate diving deep (130fsw +) on air, and I have never said so.

2) He could be a young John Chatterhorn for all we know; and how do you know that "you know better" than another? I never do...

3) I never said that he should.

 

[lamont]

2) He could be a young John Chatterhorn for all we know; and how do you know that "you know better" than another? I never do...

He could also be a young Chrissy Rouse...

 

[Walter]

........and either way, it's none of our business.