Hydro and VIP expiration dates

[tc]

Agree on dating the sticker so it times out at the same time as the Hydro- and you make a notation on your inspection record to keep things clear and of course you explain it to the customer.

If someone filling a tank is in a hurry (you HOPE this never happens- but I'll bet it does occasionally) and they just glance at the sticker and see the date is within a year and they assume the hydro must be ok............. Pre-dating the sticker so it times out with the hydro hopefully keeps this from occurring.

 

[TravisD]

Do shops normally keep records of VIPs? The one that des my VIPs just inspects, swaps the o ring, puts on a new sticker and sends me on my way.

 

[toddthecat]

Do shops normally keep records of VIPs? The one that des my VIPs just inspects, swaps the o ring, puts on a new sticker and sends me on my way.

We do. We provide an extensive paper that shows what we did, what problems there were, how many good threads there are, etc. It is a form made by Luxfer and we love it because it allows us to show how we inspected it and what we found. Customer gets the original and the shop keeps a copy.

 

[halocline]

When I perform a VIP on a tank with that situation, I backdate the VIP so it will expire at the same time as the hydro. So in your case, the sticker would be punched 02-13 when you collect it from me.

Do you charge less for this VIP? I'd be pretty pissed off if I paid for a year-long sticker and only got six months because the dive shop inspector decided he needed to see it again after hydro. Especially considering that the hydro inspectors, you know the ones with an actual DOT license, are supposed to perform a visual inspection as part of the hydro test.

 

[TravisD]

Do you charge less for this VIP? I'd be pretty pissed off if I paid for a year-long sticker and only got six months because the dive shop inspector decided he needed to see it again after hydro. Especially considering that the hydro inspectors, you know the ones with an actual DOT license, are supposed to perform a visual inspection as part of the hydro test.

I believe what the poster is saying is that when doing a VIP where the Hydro date comes up in less than a year from that date, he shortens the VIP so that it ends at the same time as Hydro. Since you have to have both a valid VIP and Hydro, the net effect is the same as far as when you can stop getting fills. Having a longer VIP just means that you MIGHT sneak by an inattentive fill monkey.

 

[Sevenrider860]

According to the SDI/TDI Visual Inspection Procedures manual, page 33, point 17:

"NEVER DATE AN EOI STICKER TO EXPIRE AFTER A DUE HYDRO DATE."

They actually capitalized every letter.

EOI - Evidence of Inspection

So is the date punched on the SDI/TDI EOI sticker an expiration date? I apply a label that shows the month and year that the inspection was performed. If a hydro is performed two months later, that does not negate the fact that a visual inspection was performed two months prior nor does it change the fact that an inspection should be performed after the hydro. My stickers don't indicate the inspection is valid for one year, just that a visual inspection was performed and that the cylinder met the requirements to remain in service when inspected.

Do you charge less for this VIP? I'd be pretty pissed off if I paid for a year-long sticker and only got six months because the dive shop inspector decided he needed to see it again after hydro. Especially considering that the hydro inspectors, you know the ones with an actual DOT license, are supposed to perform a visual inspection as part of the hydro test.

I don't get paid for a year-long sticker or a day-long sticker. I get paid to perform a visual inspection and the sticker contains the date (month and year) the inspection was performed. My inspections are not "valid" for a year. There is no way for me to know if somebody pulled the valve and poured a cup of sea water in the cylinder a day after it was returned to them. My paperwork indicates the condition and the findings at the time of the inspection only and the sticker reflects that.

 

[spectrum]

I can't believe no one has complained about that. I imagine people just don't notice or care. Wait until you get someone who does notice and care...

In the world od records this is not back dating (which is considered fraudulent) it is short dating which adjusts the expriation to an irregular circumstance. I don't see any problem if the customer is consulted and appropiate recods are kept.

Pete

 

[halocline]

I believe what the poster is saying is that when doing a VIP where the Hydro date comes up in less than a year from that date, he shortens the VIP so that it ends at the same time as Hydro. Since you have to have both a valid VIP and Hydro, the net effect is the same as far as when you can stop getting fills. Having a longer VIP just means that you MIGHT sneak by an inattentive fill monkey.

There is no reason-zero-that a dive shop visual inspection sticker should last for less than a year, and there is no reason-zero-that a tank should need to be re-inspected by a dive shop fresh out of hydro. The hydro test facility supposedly has actual trained and licensed tank inspectors, not simply dive shop employees who have taken a for-profit weekend seminar so they can tell their customers they are 'certified' tank inspectors. And a visual inspection is part of the hydro test procedure, performed by the hydro facility.

So there's no reason if a dive shop puts a sticker on, say, six months before the hydro due date, that the customer should need a new sticker immediately after the new hydro test. The fact that the tank was hydro tested does not mean that there's now reason to re-inspect the tank other than making sure the hydro facility didn't leave moisture in the tank.

I realize we're not talking about much money here. To me it's the principle, and since there's SO MUCH B.S. regarding tank handling, inspection, cleaning, nitrox use, etc....at many dive shops to begin with, I get very impatient with the whole process. The bottom line is this: the dive shop owns the compressor, they make the rules. Often as they're going along!

 

[pocky21]

When my tanks came back from hydro, not only did the shop perform a VIP in addition to they hydro, I requested to personally view the interior of them. I'm by no means trained to inspect tanks, but having been an auto/diesel tech for several years I can attest to the staggering number of "tests" done by "certified professionals" that were "properly documented".

Trust nothing but your own two eyes, and educate yourself!

On the subject of back/short dating and all this tank handling BS - having been in the area of a CF paintball tank that let go, I will never blame a station operator for being too careful. If they want to look in the tank - great! Let me have a looksie too. If you want to fill it at 100psi / min - even better! It doesn't take an engineer to tell you the dangers of flash-filling. Thinking about the potential energy stored in a scuba tank is enough to remind me why we do all these things in the first place.

 

[NAM001]

I am glad I never took my vis clas from tdi/sdi then. Backdating destroys the integrity of the entire system. The date does not establish the expriation date of the vis its usage does. Does sdi and tdi disregauard the recommended peridosity of doing vis's on high use tanks or do they ask for the rate of use and falsify the inspection date acordingly. to insure the next inspecton is done in 90 days for a high use cylendar. I guess each agency has its own logic on this. The only sence this behavior seems to accomplish is that it forces a new vis at hydro time. What happened to the hydro is also a proof of vis and no vis is (technically ) needed as the hydro date is a vis date for the first period after the hydro.

I applaude all that has responded negatively to backdating the inspection dates of vis's.

This again may be considered an agency preference by some but I was taught thta the date is THE INSPECTION DATE and that the inspection validity for the tank is NOT TO EXCEED a period of one year. If a tank is a high use tank or say subject to use that would invalidate the inspection status of the tank ,,then it should be inspected as a more frequent periodicity. Such examples would include boat rentals that are filled many times a day or at sea or with portalble compressor or a cylendar found with water in it. The one year period is for (if i remember) for tanks that are filled 1-2 times a week max. Now in this discussed matter the vis is void when the tank was filled with water for hydro. the hydro process voids the vis not the date. Most hydro shops can not do a complete vis as the tanks they hydro are without valves ect. The shops that send the tanks to them actually complete the vis process and attach teh sticker that says that the tank and valve has been inspected..............

Perhaps some very knowlegeable PSI trainers can comment on this dating practice.