kelpmermaid
Contributor
In my dreams.
Hybrid vehicles
- Thread starter clearwtr
- Start date
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NJDiveGirl
Guest
whats it up to out in Cali? I was out there a while back and it was push $2 a gallon. We're paying about 1.44 - my b/f is working in Southern NJ where its about 1.28- nice, huh???
chrpai
Contributor
Gas is $1.35 for 87 octane here in Houston. The national gas average is $1.476 per gallon for regular grade including taxes. I don't think my calculations using $1.50 are unfair.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html
kelpmermaid
Contributor
Gives today's average for the LA/Long Beach metro area as $1.71 for regular.
Chrpai, I'm still not sure your apples are equal. Clearwtr did get the package with the navigation system which really bumps up the price on the Prius as he purchased it. I'm not sure I'd want/need that...was that also included in the options for the comparables?
I did see one on the street at lunch today, though, and it is a smaller vehicle than I had imagined from the photos.
NJDivegirl, is self-service gasoline still a no-no in NJ? If so, what a deal!
Chrpai, I'm still not sure your apples are equal. Clearwtr did get the package with the navigation system which really bumps up the price on the Prius as he purchased it. I'm not sure I'd want/need that...was that also included in the options for the comparables?
I did see one on the street at lunch today, though, and it is a smaller vehicle than I had imagined from the photos.
NJDivegirl, is self-service gasoline still a no-no in NJ? If so, what a deal!
FredT
Guest
All the hybrids I've seen so far use a lead acid battery. The technology for that design is pretty stable, with a +90% success rate in building a "3 years on the road" battery. Beyond that the success rate takes a nose dive to where only about 10% survive the fifth year. The standard practice for "5-year" battery systems is to sell a 3 year battery at 1.5x to 2x the price with a fancy label and hope the purchaser sells the car before the warranty period runs out, then "pro-rate" the cost of a replacement if they don't.
Given the 2 to 3 year life of the original battery, plus the 3 that the replacement can be counted on, give a 5 or 6 year old car at the second battery failure. Few people who buy NEW cars will keep a car past 5 years. The bet the battery folks make on a $40 battery is a good one.
OTOH the hybrids have a $2k+ battery. Figure battery replacements in every 4 years for a good cost estimate of the true driving costs.
Hybrids are interesting devices good for around town, where a true electric would work just as well if not better. It's marginal for a commuter car with 50% of the commute being at highway speeds, or for road trips. They are uesless to parasitic for long distance runs. Fuel cell hybrids may be practical in a few years if we can get the bugs out of handling H2 without the "invisible flame" problem. (Look up safety procedures on NASA test and launch stands for handling a hydrogen fire! H2 fires are nasty!) Lead-acid based hybrids may become practical if anone can demonstrate a 10 year battery life, but we aren't even close to there yet.
BTW we went through this whole thing last year when my wife wanted a new set of wheels just cause she wore the wheels off the old one after only a quarter million miles.
We ended up with an Echo, and a measured 41 MPG highway over several trips.
FT
Given the 2 to 3 year life of the original battery, plus the 3 that the replacement can be counted on, give a 5 or 6 year old car at the second battery failure. Few people who buy NEW cars will keep a car past 5 years. The bet the battery folks make on a $40 battery is a good one.
OTOH the hybrids have a $2k+ battery. Figure battery replacements in every 4 years for a good cost estimate of the true driving costs.
Hybrids are interesting devices good for around town, where a true electric would work just as well if not better. It's marginal for a commuter car with 50% of the commute being at highway speeds, or for road trips. They are uesless to parasitic for long distance runs. Fuel cell hybrids may be practical in a few years if we can get the bugs out of handling H2 without the "invisible flame" problem. (Look up safety procedures on NASA test and launch stands for handling a hydrogen fire! H2 fires are nasty!) Lead-acid based hybrids may become practical if anone can demonstrate a 10 year battery life, but we aren't even close to there yet.
BTW we went through this whole thing last year when my wife wanted a new set of wheels just cause she wore the wheels off the old one after only a quarter million miles.
We ended up with an Echo, and a measured 41 MPG highway over several trips.FT
chrpai
Contributor
Read back a few posts. My comparison was based on the Honda Civic gas and hybrid comparison. This is the only way to know the cost of normal vs hybrid.
Sadly the $25k the OP paid for the prius will take much longer to recoup, so I'm actually being generous.
cstreu1026
Contributor
Now what if you were talking about a Honda Insight which I have seen get as much as 125mpg? I know its only a two seater but you would be able to recover your expenses much quicker with an average of 70-75mpg. In the case of the Hybrid Escape, it gets roughly the same gas milage as a Prius or Civic Hybrid and more than 3 times that of your average SUV.
chrpai
Contributor
125? I'm looking at KBB and it says the 2004 with manual transmission and no airconditioning only gets 66mpg highway and 60 city. All this for only $19,000+.
The Toyota Echo Coup is $11,000 for manual and no air conditioning. Lets do the math again...
$2,000 tax deduction at 30% tax bracket = $600 savings. That makes the Insight net cost of $18,400. Thats $7,600 more expensive then the Toyota.
Honda MPG 60 (city) 2647
Toyota MPG 35 (city)
Over 420,500 miles would have to be driven to recoup the cost of the vehicle assuming $1.50 per gallon. And again, thats not even touching additional maintenance.
cornfed
Mindless lemming
Is it like Sierra hybrid (which isn't really a hybrid)?
