Hpw often do people have to use octo.

[opiniongirl]

Daphne,

If you were taking a padi course your instructor violated a major standard. Perhaps not permitting you to dive would be an absolute last resort, but there are many other solutions that would allow you to participate AND to dive with equipment required. As a rescue diver, others will look to you for advice and will copy what you do. That's why, even experienced divers still do a buddy check - as no matter how prepared you think you are, things can always happen. As a rescue diver, you need to set a good example.

As well, and totally objectively, I question what other standards the leaders of your course felt also unimportant. In my experience, the ones who break such major ones as that, are also the ones who break others. Standards protect us all - and it's in your best interests to question instructors who don't enforce them. As previously mentioned - there are lots of alternatives in between allowing you to dive without one, and not diving at all. Most instructors are outstanding in finding solutions so everyone's happy.

 

[underwater daphne]

Daphne,

If you were taking a padi course your instructor violated a major standard. Perhaps not permitting you to dive would be an absolute last resort, but there are many other solutions that would allow you to participate AND to dive with equipment required. As a rescue diver, others will look to you for advice and will copy what you do. That's why, even experienced divers still do a buddy check - as no matter how prepared you think you are, things can always happen. As a rescue diver, you need to set a good example.

As well, and totally objectively, I question what other standards the leaders of your course felt also unimportant. In my experience, the ones who break such major ones as that, are also the ones who break others. Standards protect us all - and it's in your best interests to question instructors who don't enforce them. As previously mentioned - there are lots of alternatives in between allowing you to dive without one, and not diving at all. Most instructors are outstanding in finding solutions so everyone's happy.

i had an excellent instructor and 2 very good dms on that day. i just hate generalizations. they acted responsibly for the situation and the decision was to only dive to 5 meters. that we fell to 8 was during a rescue practice. i see nothing wrong in the decision of letting me do the course with only one regulator.

and again, i hate generalizations. none of you were there to experience the situation, so maybe you shouldn't judge.

ah, just forget it.

 

[jonnythan]

I've gotta agree, if you're not deep and you have a PADI instructor supervising you, there's "absolutely no danger."

 

[opiniongirl]

Sorry Daphne,

I'm not trying to upset ya - I think you'll just find with many instructors...no matter how much you love them...the standards are there to protect students and instructors alike...it's just black and white - not judgemental - don't break standards if you are a dive professional - it's just not worth it, and increases the cost of our insurance!

Absolutely, you dove that day, and nothing happened - but that's not the point...that's the point that I'm suggesting..soon you will have divers looking to you as a rescue diver..so you need to show a good example for them - even if you're diving in a swimming pool.

PS - like the cow!

 

[underwater daphne]

Sorry Daphne,

I'm not trying to upset ya - I think you'll just find with many instructors...no matter how much you love them...the standards are there to protect students and instructors alike...it's just black and white - not judgemental - don't break standards if you are a dive professional - it's just not worth it, and increases the cost of our insurance!

Absolutely, you dove that day, and nothing happened - but that's not the point...that's the point that I'm suggesting..soon you will have divers looking to you as a rescue diver..so you need to show a good example for them - even if you're diving in a swimming pool.

PS - like the cow!

ah, my point is, why do something just because it's in the book? let's put it this way:

1. i had a perfectly funtioning regulator
2. i was supervised by 1 instructor and 2 dms. all of which are VERY responsible, conservative and experienced divers.
3. we decided to do the practices at 5 meters max.
4. the dives were short and for practice reasons only. we were not under water longer than necessary.
5. i had tons of air and tons of air left at the end of the day.
6. if i ran out of air which would have been the absolute worse case scenario, which also was PRACTICALLY impossible, i would have had 4 RESCUE trained buddies to help me out.
7. all divers knew the situation

now tell me, rationally!, think about it for a moment and forget the books! now think again, was i in ANY danger at any moment during the course because i dove without an octopus?

i don't think i'm a bad example because of this. to tell you the truth, if the situation wasn't like the above and if i didn't know the instructor and trust him, than i would agree, but honestly, in the above situation, i won't agree.

ps thanks. i like the cow too

 

[jbd]

i had an excellent instructor and 2 very good dms on that day. i just hate generalizations. they acted responsibly for the situation and the decision was to only dive to 5 meters. that we fell to 8 was during a rescue practice. i see nothing wrong in the decision of letting me do the course with only one regulator.

and again, i hate generalizations. none of you were there to experience the situation, so maybe you shouldn't judge.

ah, just forget it.

For all their excellence, they acted irresponsibly for the situation by violating the standards as set forth by the agency they represent. That in and of itself is cut and dried, black and white, plain and simple.

Had you been out diving with with some buddies and made the choice you made then thats your business and your judgement call.

You may not see anything wrong with decision to let you dive but the instructor should see something wrong with it. When you have to pay liability insurance you will see what was wrong with the decision.

 

[opiniongirl]

No, I hear you, and as mentioned you did the dives, and survived

And I don't think YOU were a bad example...but I think your instructor could have set a better example for YOU if they would have come up with a better solution - which would reinforce what your class learned, and would have been an opportunity to teach your class how you need to be creative when issues come up. A teachable moment lost - dang.

So ya, the danger in that situation was minimal - agree there, PADI hat off.

But PADI hat back on - it's fun and challenging to analyze the dive and see what you would have done differently to maximize safety. Accidents rarely happen when just one thing goes wrong, its rather a chain of events which started from one thing going wrong.

 

[underwater daphne]

well, i'll let my instructors make their decisions and i make my own. there was absolutely no danger. and i see no mistake, even if they didn't follow padi rules (subjective opinion).

i respect ppl who do things by the book, but as with the bible, quran, etc i will follow no book blindly just because it says padi on it or especially then. and i have no problem with ppl who do it like me. if it's safe then it doesn't matter what others say. and it was safe.

but ok, i won't go on. i see your point and i think you see mine. it's done, i would do it again, if the situation was exactly the same and safe. i wouldn't if i felt, saw, knew any danger.

@opiniongirl yeah, apart from muscle aches and being very tired i survived. thanks.

 

[SubMariner]

In answer to the original question - how often...

Expect that you'll need to use it on every dive.

Simple, yet effective.

Nicely said!

 

[SubMariner]

well, i'll let my instructors make their decisions and i make my own. there was absolutely no danger. and i see no mistake, even if they didn't follow padi rules (subjective opinion).

UD, when it comes to Standards (PADI or any other agency) there is no "subjective opinion". There is only the Standards, which are there to protect both the Instructor and the student. The fact that you are still under the impression that these safety rules are "optional" is very distressing.

i respect ppl who do things by the book, but as with the bible, quran, etc i will follow no book blindly just because it says padi on it or especially then. and i have no problem with ppl who do it like me. if it's safe then it doesn't matter what others say. and it was safe.

Re-read what you just posted. Are you REALLY advocating not following safety standards simply because you perceive it as "do[ing] things by the book"?

Frankly, if another PADI Instructor was on the site where this occurred, they would be bound to report your Instructor(s) and DM(s) to PADI for violation of Standards and putting a student at risk. Does that impress upon you how seriously you should be taking this issue?

Do you expect to go on to be a DM and/or Instructor? Then start thinking like one!

No, I hear you, and as mentioned you did the dives, and survived

And I don't think YOU were a bad example...but I think your instructor could have set a better example for YOU if they would have come up with a better solution - which would reinforce what your class learned, and would have been an opportunity to teach your class how you need to be creative when issues come up. A teachable moment lost - dang.

So ya, the danger in that situation was minimal - agree there, PADI hat off.

But PADI hat back on - it's fun and challenging to analyze the dive and see what you would have done differently to maximize safety. Accidents rarely happen when just one thing goes wrong, its rather a chain of events which started from one thing going wrong.

Very well put. Mr. Murphy loves people who don't don't or won't pay attention to details. It's not the little snowball that gets you, but the avalanche that grows from it.

DSDO,