How to proceed with conflicting dive buddy?

[Blackcrusader]

One of the great challenges in diving. Experienced means actually having done a wide range of diving in a variety of different circumstances and 'experienced' the challenges.

Hopefully the guy @Blackcrusader mentioned above learned a lot that day. He made a good adult decision.

That diver realized his being "experienced" with 150 plus dives was not what he thought it was. Yes he now understands that even having a DM Cert won't make him experienced. In fact I told him he should finish his DM training with the op in the real challenging current diving if he really wanted a DM cert he could be proud of. That DM in training was like but you only have Padi Rescue when he first met me before even having done one dive with me ( I had not mentioned BSAC training to him lol or previous experience with strong currents in Asia. ) He also could not work out why I was so much better on air as well.

 

[billgraham]

Thought... great way to end it - signal out of air, grab his octo, then make your ascent

Regarding the buddy ending the dive...

It's a big jump from being a little concerned to taking over the dive and effectively forcing them to end the dive. In this case the deceased was an experienced diver and instructor (I believe). Suddenly taking over and taking command isn't something we do in diving as it tends to be building a consensus: not shouting at people.

If you've asked and the person responds with that's about it. Unless you're certain that they're impaired -- a tough call -- what else can you do; we have extremely limited communications abilities underwater.

Sure, if you're really sure the person's wrong or ill, there's always the choice of you personally thumbing the dive. That too is a big step.

It's a tough event to put it mildly. Certainly the Maltese judicial system is completely wrong on this one. No doubt it'll go to appeal; but with so few legal professionals, the chances are the legal mob and the police will all cover each other's backsides.

Every incident I've been involved with had a part where I'm asking the person if they are ok, they insist that they are better than ok, damnit, and then shortly thereafter, they are totally not ok. I think the first thing you learn in diving is to give that signal back when someone asks you, and it becomes a reflex. Don't believe it. Look at their eyes.

The second thing we talk about frequently is "goal oriented diving". It's nice to have aspirations of what you want to do, but once you set it out as a "goal" for a dive, it becomes tempting to ignore whatever rules you typically follow for calling a dive. I've had people give me the "just a little bit more" signal on cave dives and then demand to know why I turned it after the dive. I've tried to distance myself from that kind of thing.

The points about preferring solo diving are well taken, but things like cave diving are more fun with someone else. It is hard to find people who you mesh with so don't feel compelled to do anything you aren't happy with. It's much better to take a day off then get in the water feeling uncertain about the dive.

"It's supposed to be fun!"

Have fun out there, kids.

Bill

 

[Wibble]

The points about preferring solo diving are well taken, but things like cave diving are more fun with someone else.
...
"It's supposed to be fun!"

Cave diving is, in my limited experience, far more serious and needs a lot more commitment. The skills are definitely better. Following "the rules" is the norm rather than rough guidance.

Compare that with open water diving where skills are extremely varied; on the same dive you can have people doing an NDL dip with others diving for a couple of hours using "technical" techniques. Solo diving is then a nice way of enjoying the dive without babysitting.

 

[billgraham]

Solo diving is then a nice way of enjoying the dive without babysitting.

You're preaching to the choir. Typically, I'm worried about ME holding other people back at this point but the result is the same.

 

[Beau Holden]

but things like cave diving are more fun with someone else. It is hard to find people who you mesh with so don't feel compelled to do anything you aren't happy with. It's much better to take a day off then get in the water feeling uncertain about the dive.

Could not agree more.

 

[SlugLife]

Cave diving is, in my limited experience, far more serious and needs a lot more commitment. The skills are definitely better. Following "the rules" is the norm rather than rough guidance.

Compare that with open water diving where skills are extremely varied; on the same dive you can have people doing an NDL dip with others diving for a couple of hours using "technical" techniques. Solo diving is then a nice way of enjoying the dive without babysitting.

Anyone who doesn't take cave-diving seriously enough may just end up in a Dive Talk video, and over on the accidents-and-incidents section. A lot of the stuff I've said about solo-diving may not exactly apply to caves, because you're that much farther away from the surface, and there's that much more that could go severely wrong.

Solo diving is then a nice way of enjoying the dive without babysitting.

Even without the babysitting aspect, where I dive is terrible vis, meaning you have to check on your buddy every 3 seconds, and not wander from a straight-line, otherwise you lose the buddy. I'll often buddy with someone who asks, but it does take a LOT out of my enjoyment, even if it's not their fault.

You're preaching to the choir. Typically, I'm worried about ME holding other people back at this point but the result is the same.

Whether you're holding back other divers is perhaps one of those things best left to thinking about at home on ways to improve, but removing from your mind while at a dive-site or on a dive.

For example, my mindset when I'm donning gear is "fk you, I'll take as long as I need to or want to." The temptation to rush, skip steps, etc is too dangerous, or actually makes me slower overall (crap, I forgot my gloves/computer/mask-defog/etc). When I'm at home, I'm all about optimizing my gear, brainstorming ways to make donning easier and faster, etc.

 

[billgraham]

Anyone who doesn't take cave-diving seriously enough may just end up in a Dive Talk video, and over on the accidents-and-incidents section. A lot of the stuff I've said about solo-diving may not exactly apply to caves, because you're that much farther away from the surface, and there's that much more that could go severely wrong.



Even without the babysitting aspect, where I dive is terrible vis, meaning you have to check on your buddy every 3 seconds, and not wander from a straight-line, otherwise you lose the buddy. I'll often buddy with someone who asks, but it does take a LOT out of my enjoyment, even if it's not their fault.


Whether you're holding back other divers is perhaps one of those things best left to thinking about at home on ways to improve, but removing from your mind while at a dive-site or on a dive.

For example, my mindset when I'm donning gear is "fk you, I'll take as long as I need to or want to." The temptation to rush, skip steps, etc is too dangerous, or actually makes me slower overall (crap, I forgot my gloves/computer/mask-defog/etc). When I'm at home, I'm all about optimizing my gear, brainstorming ways to make donning easier and faster, etc.

What I mean is, I'd rather dive alone, and do my own thing. I get the further/longer/faster thing, I was like that when I was a younger diver, but I'm not interested.