How to (politely) advocate for more weight?

[TMHeimer]

I fully understand that, having taught it. These days, however, I believe that properly taught OW students do not need Peak Performance Buoyancy.

Agree. Also improperly taught OW students who have had much previous "water" experience and can quickly figure out buoyancy. Boy that's an old discussion.

 

[Scuba Scott]

It’s a race to the bottom among some on SB to see how little lead they can dive with.

The divers on SB tend to be among the more experienced divers. I think you may fall into this category as well.
Many of us that have been around a while have at least one story that starts with someone being overweight, some tragic, some less so. Proper weighting is a safety issue.
It isn't about pride, it isn't being cool, it is safety.
A properly weighted diver can jump off a boat with air turned off and a deflated BC and remain on the surface without much difficulty until the problem is resolved. An overweighted diver is now in an emergency situation.

Along with all this experience comes age and as I get older I prefer to carry around as little weight as possible. Every pound of lead I take off makes my dive one pound more enjoyable. But mostly, it's about safety.

 

[Marie13]

The divers on SB tend to be among the more experienced divers. I think you may fall into this category as well.
Many of us that have been around a while have at least one story that starts with someone being overweight, some tragic, some less so. Proper weighting is a safety issue.
It isn't about pride, it isn't being cool, it is safety.
A properly weighted diver can jump off a boat with air turned off and a deflated BC and remain on the surface without much difficulty until the problem is resolved. An overweighted diver is now in an emergency situation.

Along with all this experience comes age and as I get older I prefer to carry around as little weight as possible. Every pound of lead I take off makes my dive one pound more enjoyable. But mostly, it's about safety.

The SB competition is to have as little as possible. It has nothing to do with safety as far as I can tell. It’s simply the boys chest thumping about how little they can get by with.

I dive cold(er) water with thick undies under my drysuit. A bit more lead allows you to put more in your suit. Lead=warmth.

 

[Doby45]

The divers on SB tend to be among the more experienced divers. I think you may fall into this category as well.
Many of us that have been around a while have at least one story that starts with someone being overweight, some tragic, some less so.

One of the very first spearfishing trips I went on, this very thing happened. Myself and my buddy were first to drop in (max depth here was about 80') and we dropped in negative, to get under the current quickly. For someone that has not done a negative drop, it is more controlled than it sounds, you just get down quicker.

Well needless to say, my buddy and I are about a third the way down and I catch something out of the corner of my eye. I turn to look and it is one of the other divers on the boat. He is dropping faster than us and looks like a literal lawn dart heading to the bottom. When he reached the bottom he hit so hard that is caused the sand and small particulate at the bottom to balloon up and it popped one of his fins off.

He seemed to collect himself and retrieved his fin and we went on about our dive. Come to find out the guy was diving with almost 30lbs of weight, in boardshorts and a shirt, single tank. My jaw dropped when he was pulling weight out of his BCD on the boat. While it was mildly comical in only 80' of water, it would have/could have been far worse if we were more out in blue water.

 

[scubadada]

...It is entirely possible that I don't need as much as I think I do. I know I am inexperienced and still getting the hang of things. But I also know that last week I had 14lbs in my pockets (they wanted me at 12) and an empty BCD (DM checked, haha), and I simply could not descend. Not "buoyancy issues once underwater" but "DM had to grab me by the fin and pull me under to give me more weight." I've never been told I need less weight after someone sees me dive or try to descend. It's always before...

At the start of a dive, you have about 5 extra pounds from the air you are going to consume during the dive (AL80 3000-500 psi). It should not be difficult to descend, even if you are slightly underweighted. The problem is holding your safety stop at the end of the dive. The best weight check is at the end of the dive with an empty BC at your safety stop. You should be able to hold the stop without swimming and then make a good, controlled ascent to the surface.

16-18 lbs with a 3 mm shorty and what I assume would be a jacket BC and an AL80 does seem like a lot of weight, but you need what you need. Wear what you need to get down and then relax and try the weight check at the safety stop. Let all the air out of your BC and then do nothing, no finning, no hands, nothing. Breathe normally and see what happens. If you float, you need more weight. If you stay in the same position, you are good. If you sink, you can take out a little weight and try it again on the next dive. I have had quite a few people try this, many have been able to remove weight.

Regardless, it is a good way to figure out your weight requirement for any equipment configuration. When you figure it out, record it in your logbook for reference. I dive a 3, 5, and 7mm full suit with or without a hooded vest every year. I knew my weight requirements very well. I bought a new 3 mm full suit and could not hold my safety stop and had to fin down. I now dive with 1-2 lb more with this wetsuit and am fine.

 

[Scuba Scott]

The SB competition is to have as little as possible. It has nothing to do with safety as far as I can tell. It’s simply the boys chest thumping about how little they can get by with.

I dive cold(er) water with thick undies under my drysuit. A bit more lead allows you to put more in your suit. Lead=warmth.

I really don't get concerned with drysuit divers having extra weight. I use a lot of weight when I dive dry but I also have a lot of buoyancy.

Chest thumping about using less weight? If you use less weight than me you are either wearing less exposure protection or you are less fat. Skill does not change the density of your body in liquid. My students are properly weighted in the pool so it does not take a great deal of experience to have the minimum weight either.
I guess I don't understand the brag unless is is a roundabout way to call someone fat.

 

[johndiver999]

It probably has something to do with the stigma of being fat, but I think the "least lead" competition is based on the premise that new divers are routinely over-weighted.

When these beginning divers learn they need less lead this is viewed by many as an advancement and a refinement and improvement in their skills. So I think people extrapolate this weight reduction far more than they should and apply it as some sort of surrogate for diving skills.

It is somewhat ridiculous. The reality is that a skilled diver can dive (in a controlled manner) with way more lead than they need. If anything, being able to dive (in a controlled manner) with an excess of lead is more of a skill. Of course this too is a stupid game with no rewards.

Clearly this is not recommended, but I have found weight belts underwater many times . Typically, I will just put it on, inflate the heck out of the BC and continue the dive. If there is too much lead to get neutral, I may take a weight or two off.

Most people recognize that you want your weight dialed in within 4-5 lbs of perfect. As long as you stay on the heavy side of the equation, no problems. If you kick down at the start or pull yourself down an anchor line and find yourself 5 lbs too light when coming up.. well that is way more of a problem.

 

[Doby45]

It probably has something to do with the stigma of being fat, but I think the "least lead" competition is based on the premise that new divers are routinely over-weighted.

When these beginning divers learn they need less lead this is viewed by many as an advancement and a refinement and improvement in their skills. So I think people extrapolate this weight reduction far more than they should and apply it as some sort of surrogate for diving skills.

It is somewhat ridiculous. The reality is that a skilled diver can dive (in a controlled manner) with way more lead than they need. If anything, being able to dive (in a controlled manner) with an excess of lead is more of a skill. Of course this too is a stupid game with no rewards.

Clearly this is not recommended, but I have found weight belts underwater many times . Typically, I will just put it on, inflate the heck out of the BC and continue the dive. If there is too much lead to get neutral, I may take a weight or two off.

Most people recognize that you want your weight dialed in within 4-5 lbs of perfect. As long as you stay on the heavy side of the equation, no problems. If you kick down at the start or pull yourself down an anchor line and find yourself 5 lbs too light when coming up.. well that is way more of a problem.

I have done the same thing in the old quarry I would dive. I would collect weight pouches, belts and any other loose weights and bring them to the surface. There were times I would come up with 20lb more than I started the dive with.

 

[SlugLife]

Hi! Quick question for you lovely folks.

I'm a newer diver, and apparently I'm extra buoyant. I've done warm and cold salt water diving, and folks are almost always surprised by how much weight I need to weight check/descend/stay at depth based on my size/gear/etc (when I was certified my instructor spent extra time with me to make sure my weights were good, since he thought it was high. But he said I looked/dove great at the weight, and that some people just need more).

Recently, I've been having issues with dive shops straight up refusing to give me the weight I ask for, so I end up in the water needing more weight after a weight check or after being unable to descend with an empty bcd. They've been apologetic afterwards, but I was wondering if there's a good and polite way to express "yes I know this sounds like a lot of weight, but based on previous dives I think I need it so can I please just start with this weight instead of having to get more once I'm in the water?" I mean, other than using those exact words. Cuz I've tried using those exact words.

If I'm just being a Karen and this is standard, don't hold back, I can take it. It's just annoying when I can't descend at a weight one day, and tell folks that the next day in the same location/conditions/etc, and they want to give me even less than the day before, haha.

I only skimmed the first few pages of replies, so I may be repeating what others have said, or missed replies.

In fresh-water, I need 4-5lbs, whereas in my limited salt-water dives, I needed somewhere around 22 to 24lbs.

I'm absolutely for proper-weighting, and understand newer divers are often over-weighted. "Ideal" weighting is probably where at the end of your dive, you have 500psi, 15ft down, BCD mostly empty, and you're neutrally bouyant. That said, I'd rather be slightly over-weighted than slightly under-weighted. You can often add more air to neutralize negative-buoyancy, while may not be able to release air to counter positive buoyancy.

As far as deeper dives, under-weighting isn't a problem until you surface. The pressure tends to compress your BCD and wetsuit, making you more negatively-buoyant. However, when you're at your safety-stop you don't want to be finning down. In an "emergency" I've grabbed rocks off the bottom of a lake, but that's much less than ideal.

As a last, but potentially important point, are you completely sure your BCD is deflating fully/mostly? Simply put, it can be difficult to get all of the air out of your BCD. For a typical configuration of BCD, you'll want to be tilted upwards, at least a little, and hose also upwards, while you push the release. If you have a dump-valve on the bottom of your BCD, you can face slightly downwards and pull that dump-valve. You map also wish to slightly tilt to the appropriate side, such that air (which wants to rise) is at the highest point right where you're dumping air from.

Anyway, be assertive at the dive-shop, that the amount of weight you are requesting is from your personal experience, diving in these conditions, and that diving with less has been somewhat dangerous because you can't hold your safety stop. It's understandable that someone might question a diver that appears to be requesting more weight than they need, but if you're confident that's the amount, then no respectable diver or dive shop should deny you at that point.

 

[Belzelbub]

In fresh-water, I need 4-5lbs, whereas in my limited salt-water dives, I needed somewhere around 22 to 24lbs.

Everything else the same? If so, that sounds like a much larger swing from fresh to salt than I would expect.

This might make sense if the freshwater dives are warm water with steel tanks and the saltwater dives are in a wetsuit and AL tank. Otherwise, the 18-19 lb addition sounds like more than should be needed just to account for the difference in salinity.