How to piss off a Divemaster?

[Dr. Lecter]

I have to agree. Not as a DM, but as a fellow boat passenger. These types of divers creep me out. A disproportionate number of the incidents/accidents I've seen on boat dives have been perpetrated by these silent, withdrawn, incommunicative types.

Be an introvert, fine, but at some point, the lack of communication can affect everyone's safety.

I have to say my experience has been to the contrary. It's the guys and girls who can't shut up about their diving experience who cannot seem to take care of themselves, either on the boat or underwater. They're the ones who pull such genius moves as: telling the DM they're totally fine and will be ready to go only to declare an inability to assemble their rig right while you're waiting to splash; gear up at the bow, lurch across a crowded deck bashing into people, and then bitch at the DM for politely asking them to return to their seat because 'it's very important that I be allowed to defog my mask, if that's alright with you!'; and last but not least, fail to report any air consumption issues until they start panicking less than 10 minutes into a 90-120' dive because they're at 400psi, causing the DM to try to abort the entire group's dive rather than just send up divers/pairs as they hit 1000psi.

What, exactly, is the safety issue caused by lack of communication (versus just not having a ing clue)? The only two-way communication that really needs to occur is with one's assigned buddy, if any. Whether that's to discuss all the issues necessary for safely diving as a buddy pair, or just telling the other guy that you and your redundant air source have no intention of sticking around after the splash, depends on the dive boat on which you're riding.

 

[shoredivr]

C'mon folks, the OP wondered about things from a DM's perspective.

There are many many threads about divers pissed with DMs' behaviors. Been there, read that.

 

[bracko]

Exactly. I'll show the dive master the same courtesy and respect I'll show the local bag boy at the super market, the waiter at the restaurant, the person I sit next to on a airplane flight... they are just people like everyone else

Last time I checked the local "bag boy" (charming example btw) won't be hauled over the coals in a coroner's investigation when someone falls dead in the middle of the supermarket. It is a service industry, but the staff are also responsible to reasonably assure your safety as well. Signing the waiver isn't reason to act like a fool and potentially endanger the life of a DM or another customer as well as your own (to take it to the other simplified extreme)

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

What, exactly, is the safety issue caused by lack of communication (versus just not having a ing clue)? The only two-way communication that really needs to occur is with one's assigned buddy, if any.

I'll relate a specific example of a silent introvert endangering himself, the DM, and an entire boat full of people. This was a day trip to the Coronado Islands (Mexico) from San Diego. In SoCal, the DM stays on the boat, and doesn't get in the water or guide the group. The DM is responsible for briefing each dive, keeping track of everyone from the boat, and ensuring diver safety with all that entails.

We were diving the North shore of Middle Coronado on a relatively "lively" day, with moderate current, swell and chop. Nobody really knew what this guy's deal was, despite the fact a number of us had tried to make some conversation with him. Whether it was a result of his introversion or not, he ended up diving solo, which is allowed here on SoCal dive boats. So it took a while for the DM to notice that he was washed up in a crevice in the rocks on the island, half a mile in the opposite direction from where the DM had instructed the group to dive.

With at least 3 buddy teams still in the water, the captain pulled anchor, and moved the boat around a corner and close enough to the rocks to for the DM to swim with a rescue line to the stranded diver. At this point, the boat was quite near a rocky lee shore, and also out of sight of the original anchorage. The introvert was picked off the rocks and hauled aboard, then the boat returned to the original spot to pick up the very alarmed buddy teams who had been abandoned in the water.

Lucky for all, everyone ended up safely back on the boat. However, at risk during this maneuver were the introvert himself, the DM who rescued him, the abandoned buddy teams, and really the entire boat full of people as the Captain maneuvered uncomfortably close to the rocks in rough weather.

Sure, any idiot -- introvert or not not -- could have caused this problem. And not only the introvert, but the DM and Captain may have shown questionable judgment in handling the situation. I'm not a DM nor a Captain, so I'm not really in a position to judge their actions. But after this experience, I'll forever associate silent introverts with accidents waiting to happen.

I do believe that the DM would have stood a better chance of averting the incident if she had more clearly been able to identify this diver's combination of lack of skill and lack of a buddy, and at least kept a closer eye on him. His reticence didn't help.

Interested to hear a DM's perspective on this incident.

 

[Tigerman]

...
If you're pissed off, get out of the service industry. I'm quite frankly sick and tired of people in the service industry who aren't people persons, who aren't excited about serving their customers. If you think being a diver master is about the diving you still haven't figured it out yet.

If you keep running into people in the service industry that seem to be grumpy, you might want to consider wether or not you come across in a way that rub people the wrong way.
Some people come into everything with an attitude of everything being wrong right from the bat and no, those people wont get much patience from anyone in the service industry. People who care to be just a little bit polite and dont behave like the staff is dogs get a better reception...

Last time I checked the local "bag boy" (charming example btw) won't be hauled over the coals in a coroner's investigation when someone falls dead in the middle of the supermarket. It is a service industry, but the staff are also responsible to reasonably assure your safety as well. Signing the waiver isn't reason to act like a fool and potentially endanger the life of a DM or another customer as well as your own (to take it to the other simplified extreme)

Believe me, you can get into deep enough **** if a customer in any other part of the service industry decide to croak as well. I wont go into details, but Ive seen first hand the ****storm that happens when people want someone to blame..

I have to say my experience has been to the contrary. It's the guys and girls who can't shut up about their diving experience who cannot seem to take care of themselves, either on the boat or underwater.
...

In my experience the brash loudmouth is in any activity either SERIOUSLY good or just an ass - most common the latter..

 

[GrimSleeper]

This happened to me: A guy offered me a $1.00 tip after I had to rescue him on a dive.

I told him if his life is only worth a dollar, then he should keep it.

You got offered a tip? To quote Monty Python, you lucky, lucky b*stard. Last time I rescued someone during a dive, he threatened to have me charged with assault. To be fair, stopping him as he charged back down through 100 feet (with less than 500psi in his tank and a deco obligation on his computer), moments after he'd popped the surface from around 80 feet, did require a small amount of manhandling...

Generally, it's 'underwater tourists' who bug me. People who take no responsibility for their own dive, have no interest in developing their dive skills, but expect a dive guide to hand-hold them through the experience while they tick off yet another item on their list. They're always the first to complain that they didn't see the Hammerheads you said might be in the area (scared off by the flailing explosion of 'divers' in the water), or didn't see the Pygmy Seahorses (you need basic buoyancy skills for that), or that you won't let them do the cave dive (not with a handful of dives ever, no), and the last to acknowledge that you get out what you put in.

 

[Mike]

Some people come into everything with an attitude of everything being wrong right from the bat and no, those people wont get much patience from anyone in the service industry.

Wrong, those people won't get much patience from people in the service industry who don't belong there.

Be a professional means you're a professional, you don't turn it on or off based on the customer's demeanor or the tip you think you're going to get from one person and not from another. That's the difference and why you defend indefensible behavior.

LOL and now the discussion from divemasters is an argument about introverted or gregarious clients... and desperately reaching for a ridiculous coorelation between their personality and safety

I think there is just a tremendous amount of bitterness when you've come to a realization that you've chosen a profession that basically will keep you near poverty.

Dive masters get into diving because they love diving, they desperately search for a way to do what they love for a living and find out it's basically indentured service, and the bitterness just starts growing like a cancer in some of them. They start rationalizing a corelation that doesn't exist -- that their clients should be on a par with skills with people who have devoted their careers to diving, you dive everyday, your clients go to work in an office every day, until they change careers and switch to being dive masters and follow you on your bitter progress they don't have the opportunity to develop the skills you have. Get over it. You're not guiding for Navy Seals or commercial divers, you're guiding for people on vacation, pursuing recreation.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Sure, any idiot -- introvert or not not -- could have caused this problem.

I was going to point out that nothing in your example coupled risk to lack of communication, but you were kind enough to do that for me. Thx.

In my experience the brash loudmouth is in any activity either SERIOUSLY good or just an ass - most common the latter..

The two are hardly mutually exclusive.

In other news, I'm not sure why Mike is equating DMs to skilled dive ninjas. The ones I've seen are competent divers generally, but are too busy herding their clients to focus on perfect trim, buoyancy, and/or propulsion.


Sent from my Shearwater Petrel using Tapatalk

 

[bracko]

Believe me, you can get into deep enough **** if a customer in any other part of the service industry decide to croak as well. I wont go into details, but Ive seen first hand the ****storm that happens when people want someone to blame..


In my experience the brash loudmouth is in any activity either SERIOUSLY good or just an ass - most common the latter..

there is a significant difference though. A person without the training required to revive someone would be treated differently than someone who is in charge and trained to conduct an activity with increased risk factors.

I think divers either side of the "normal" need to be carefully observed.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The only experiences I can add are when I was a DM candidate and had to help with classes.

The instructors that would consider my weekends helping them as "friendly help" and would fail to write the sessions down to count for my internship.
They would milk out their DM help as long as they could.

Students that would end up way out where they were told not to go on their "fun dive" and me having to out and herd them back in.

Students that were told to please not drop or bang gear/regs on the cement when they were setting up their pool gear and later finding my personal regs that I loaned for the class all banged up.