How to pick a BP/W?

[Madacub]

Hey! OP here, I have found a few folks locally who are willing to let me look at their set up which will be great. I am still trying to educate myself on these things and I have another question-The webbing:

You should know about webbing: It comes in different stiffness based on the resin it has been treated with. I originally got what seemed like super stiff webbing (OMS I think) and was really unhappy with it - just very difficult to thread and make adjustments to. Then I came across some that seemed to have absolutely no resin (DiveRite, maybe). I'm using that now and really happy with it. Some have said too soft is no good because it bunches and bites into your shoulder, or that it is too floppy and gets entangled when you put it on, or that the D rings move around. I did not find any of that in my case. I also read where someone was succesful in softening up the hard version by boiling it. (The things us humans do...) By the way, I must have told the LDS at least 5 times when I bought my original hard resin webbing "Too stiff, don't like it". All they said was "Don't worry. It'll soften up after a couple of dives". Nothing of the sort. No noticable change after 20 dives, then I got rid of it and got the soft one I have now. (Didn't know about the boiling trick at that time

So what are the advantages/disadvantage-The padded stuff looks more comfortable but is it defeating a point of the BP/W? Some look so padded that its hard to tell them from more a traditional BC.

I bought the OMS deluxe harness a year ago, changed my mind in 1-2 days and returned it for simple webbing. My reasoning was that in other walks of life, middle/compromise solutions often leave you unhappy at both ends, so just go for a good example of any proper solution. The fact is you really don't need all that padding for the straps. Same goes for the padding you can get for a backplate. I used one originally, but don't anymore. But you can use it to stow something like an SMB.

And when you say "hard to tell them from more a traditional BC", Tobin has said something similar (at least once!).

Hope this helps.

 

[fire_diver]

If I'm wearing my wetsuit, the web won't slide over my shoulder and down my arm. With new webbing and T-shirt diving in the pool, I am going to get cut by the webbing when I try to doff the rig on my X frame work stand.


I understand the minimalist thing but I really don't like it. I view it like the King's clothes. We're supposed to like it because it's DIR and we all have to stand and salute it. I think the King is running around naked.

Richard

Your straps are obviously WAY too tight if you can't get into the harness. Have you ever sought the help of other BPW users for advise on how to adjust it correctly?


Nobody says you have to like the BPW. No single piece of gear is right for everyone. If you don't like it, don't use it. But for the record, the backplate is not DIR and nobody expects you to "salute" anything.

 

[OldNSalty]

You on the other hand made yourself look less than professional last week on another thread and you just repeat the same mistakes. Oh and less than professional is about the nicest thing anyone that read the thread would say about your attitude.
So need I tell you where to take your attitude?

Not that my opinion is worth much but I believe I know the thread and I must say neither of you looked very professional at one point. At least DevonDiver realized that he had been drug down into a pointless internet fight and did a course correction-the professional thing to do.

 

[halocline]

All of my other BP/Ws have one piece harnesses with no release buckles. They are a PITA. If I'm wearing my wetsuit, the web won't slide over my shoulder and down my arm. With new webbing and T-shirt diving in the pool, I am going to get cut by the webbing when I try to doff the rig on my X frame work stand.

A truck tailgate is nowhere near high enough. I need the shoulder straps above my shoulders when I try to get into the rig. So I have to crouch way down and risk another round of visits to the Chiropractor.

I understand the minimalist thing but I really don't like it. I view it like the King's clothes. We're supposed to like it because it's DIR and we all have to stand and salute it. I think the King is running around naked.

Richard

No, the one piece harness is popular precisely because for most divers with lots of experience who have tried both the one piece webbing and the padded quick release harnesses, the one piece harness performs better. It has nothing to do with "kings clothing" or any other thing you want to make up.

You must be extremely delicate or have some bizarre razor-style webbing to get cut by it. That's one I've never heard.

If you have so much trouble donning scuba gear that you need to see a chiropractor due to crouching down to put on your tank, I'd say that's a pretty clear medical problem that you should seek help for. It certainly is not indicative of a normal healthy diver. Or were you exaggerating for effect?

 

[rstofer]

Your straps are obviously WAY too tight if you can't get into the harness. Have you ever sought the help of other BPW users for advise on how to adjust it correctly?

Pretty much just like the BAUE site suggests to set it up: BAUE How To Size a Backplate

The thing is, I'm an old man and I just don't bend in the ways I used to. That 'chicken wing' thing ain't happening.

Nevertheless, I'm in.

One other factor: When I mount my double hose regulator, it has to clear the plate somehow. Yet it still wants to be centered between my shoulder blades. There also need to be some clearance for the wing. You would think this would make the shoulder straps even longer. Touching the top of the plate is out of the question.

The Freedom plate looks like it will be a step forward as it is curved to follow the upper spine. This gives clearance for the regulator housing while allowing the plate to be a little higher. I haven't had a chance to dive this rig yet.

Maybe over the next year or so I will re-rig the web harnesses with QR buckles. At the moment, I just bitch about it.

The DSS rigs will probably stay with the ProFit harness and the QR buckles. These are the two important setups (mine and my son-in-law's). The other rigs are just for use in the pool or use in the ocean with a double hose regulator.

Richard

 

[rstofer]

You must be extremely delicate or have some bizarre razor-style webbing to get cut by it. That's one I've never heard.

If you have so much trouble donning scuba gear that you need to see a chiropractor due to crouching down to put on your tank, I'd say that's a pretty clear medical problem that you should seek help for. It certainly is not indicative of a normal healthy diver. Or were you exaggerating for effect?

Here's the thing: I am nearly 64 years old. Social Security is paying for all this stuff. That and a small pension.

You will find, when you take blood thinners, that even simple scratches tend to bleed a lot. Worst case, the straps scrape off the scabs from the abrasions I got from wrestling with my grandson's Great Dane puppy (120# of energy). Heck, I've got over 6" of scabs spread over both arms from the last time the dog was here. We buy bandages at Big Lots. Or Costco in the economy 100 packs.

New webbing is pretty abrasive on the edges.

I have spent months paying for my Chiropractor's son to go to college. Old backs are just that, old! Maybe they can't sling pairs of HP 100s any more. Maybe stooping down to don a BP/W from a work table is a bad idea! Maybe dirt bike racing into my 40s wasn't such a good idea, either. Probably should have skipped the hydroplane racing. Maybe certain parts just plain hurt. Sciatica is like that. Once you pinch that nerve you are in for a very long recovery. Conventional medicine just dispenses Tylenol. Good luck with that!

Oh, and my doctor has no problem with my diving.

Richard

 

[rstofer]

You can add a quick release buckle without buying a fluffy, padded harness. Like this:

http://www.spearboard.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=58319&d=1184545148

I tried it a while back and I didn't really like the loop and where it came out but I might give it another shot.

Richard

 

[RAWalker]

Here's the thing: I am nearly 64 years old. Social Security is paying for all this stuff. That and a small pension.

You will find, when you take blood thinners, that even simple scratches tend to bleed a lot. Worst case, the straps scrape off the scabs from the abrasions I got from wrestling with my grandson's Great Dane puppy (120# of energy). Heck, I've got over 6" of scabs spread over both arms from the last time the dog was here. We buy bandages at Big Lots. Or Costco in the economy 100 packs.

New webbing is pretty abrasive on the edges.

I have spent months paying for my Chiropractor's son to go to college. Old backs are just that, old! Maybe they can't sling pairs of HP 100s any more. Maybe stooping down to don a BP/W from a work table is a bad idea! Maybe dirt bike racing into my 40s wasn't such a good idea, either. Probably should have skipped the hydroplane racing. Maybe certain parts just plain hurt. Sciatica is like that. Once you pinch that nerve you are in for a very long recovery. Conventional medicine just dispenses Tylenol. Good luck with that!

Oh, and my doctor has no problem with my diving.

Richard

Richard congrats on keeping it up!
I'd bet on half of the quick to judge being simple couch potatoes by your age.
I agree with the Kings new cloths and would go further to say that many are following the music of the piper without understanding the song.

 

[RAWalker]

I've used the strategy of traveling with a lighter plate, and adding weight at my destination, and it works fine for warm water diving. It would be very kludgy for cold water -- I add six pounds to the cambands for warm water diving, and trying to figure out how to add another five would be annoying and inconvenient.

I don't understand the fuss about wings, though. I dove a DSS 30 lb horseshoe wing for a couple of years, in cold water and warm. It was more lift than I needed in warm water, but not unmanageable; it was plenty of lift for my cold water setup in a single tank. I have subsequently acquired a 17 lb tropical wing, which I adore, but I didn't HAVE to have it.

On the other hand, it would be rare to require 45 lbs of more of lift for a single tank, even in cold water, and buying way more lift than you need and then having to bungie the wing down to avoid tacoing seems to me to be the wrong answer to the question.

Thanks for the reply.
The real heart of this debate is someone who is looking to start diving BP&W looking to be able to dive under the most diverse conditions but limited to 1 Plate and 1 Wing.
I've agreed from the get go that this widest possible environment scenario leave a rig that is to use your word Kludgy but it is a rig that could be used safely.
This would be a rig that someone could dive almost anywhere. If more weight is needed than a couple of band pockets can store a weight belt could make up the difference and nearly every dive op will supply it with the weight.
As for the 45# bungie wing I understand it's more capacity than needed in most cases. Maybe not for a large steel tank in cold water. I also know for a fact that the bungies do a good job of controlling the taco effect and controlling air movement within the wing while horizontal. It isn't perfect it is useable without safety concerns.
I know this for a fact because I own this wing and have used it in this way. It was designed to be used this way and is clearly marked so on the wing.
So again this is a choice for the a singles rig for the widest possible range of uses.

I have since replaced it with a 30# Oxycheq Mach V for singles but plan to use the OMS 45# for double AL80s which it is also clearly designed to do.
In the case of doubles this wing is actually a good choice for AL80s under the right conditions.

 

[DevonDiver]

The single-piece harness is a core configuration concept for many (most?) technical divers. It is probably the most common configuration for Hogarthian divers and is the standard for GUE/UTD as part of the DIR philosophy.

If divers can learn to easily don and doff a unit, conduct rescues etc etc etc.... with single-piece harness, wearing doubles and multiple stages, along with canister lights etc etc.... then to do so with a single tank recreational set-up is considerably more easy.

I teach all my students in BP/W with single-piece harness, from DSDs to Open Water to tech courses. Regardless of shape, size or mobility, they all learn and become familiar with the rigs and are able to utilize them without a snag. This includes equipment remove and replace underwater and on the surface.

IMHO, where divers experience problems using a single-piece harness, it is invariably because they have sized the straps badly and just haven't practised enough. It is a lingering after-effect of being used to wearing jacket style BCDs.

Only a bad workman will blame his tools. If the single-piece configuration is the preference of the world's elite divers, then it is unlikely to have achieved this precedence if it is inherently difficult or dangerous. It's funny how the people who state having trouble with this rig are generally inexperienced divers.....

For those divers who have genuine mobility problems, the single-piece harness can be easily modified with the inclusion of a metal weight-belt buckle on the left, lower, shoulder strap. Enabling a reliable quick release that is not prone to failure or breakage (as a plastic buckle would be).