How to handle violation of a dive site rules (Solo Diving)

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Well BOB

I think i mostly agree with you on this. A quick glimps at equipment or hearing a partial conversation just isnt the justification needed to report an unproven assumed condition.

... but in the case of the original post it wasn't an unproven assumed condition. The man clearly didn't have the redundant air supply that the owner of the property said he was supposed to have in order to dive solo at that site. That's a visibly verifiable condition. Whether or not he's competent to solo dive without it is another matter ... but clearly he was not following the rules established for solo diving at that site.

That's quite different than your general statement that "when you dive with a new diver that you are diving solo but with someone else present". That's a judgment call based on nothing more than a bias against new divers. You cannot accurately judge someone's competence by looking at them, or by knowing how many dives they've done. You need to talk to them enough to determine that they have a good attitude about dive safety, and you need to see them in the water to determine their actual skill set.

As an instructor, if I were to assume that any of my students were incompetent to be a dive buddy because they were new, what I'd really be assuming is that I failed to train them properly. Under no circumstances would I certify an OW student if I felt that they were an incompetent dive buddy. Certainly there's an expectation that they'll have a lot to learn ... but if you don't have the skills or attitude to be a reasonable dive buddy then you shouldn't be getting a c-card that says you do.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Not necessarily so ... and it's an assumption that doesn't take anything about that diver into consideration.

FWIW - I've known, and trained, some divers I would inherently trust as a dive buddy far more than some old-timers I've known. Being a good buddy has less to do with experience than it does attitude and habits.

Much the same can be said about the scenario posited in the initial post. You can't tell much, really, about a diver by looking at him. And you can't tell much about how safe he's likely to be by the gear he's using. Having a pony bottle is only worthwhile if you have the presence of mind (and the ability) to deploy it in a timely manner in an emergency. I once dived with a fellow who told me his solo strategy was to dive until his main tank runs OOA, then switch to the pony and come in. I'm sure he wasn't trained that way ... but even after I explained to him why that wasn't a very good idea he continued to not see anything wrong with it. Divers like that can't be reasoned with ... and it's best just to stay away from them and let Darwin sort it out.

The problem with people like that is that they aren't just a danger to themselves ... but to those around them. And you don't have to be someone's dive buddy to be accosted by them once they put themselves in a position to discover that they're not nearly as well-prepared for an emergency as they thought they were.

So no ... give me the new diver who paid attention to his training, and who is working hard to improve any time over the older hand who thinks he's got it all figured out and routinely cuts corners. Chances are pretty good that even in an emergency, the former will be better prepared to think their way through the emergency without creating an even bigger problem. A good attitude frequently trumps a good number of dives in that respect ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think those of us who have been diving for many years have seen all sorts of extremes, including the occasional "older hand who thinks he's got it all figured out and routinely cuts corners" to the vast number of more recently certified OW and AOW divers with the usual low level of training who have trouble putting their equipment together properly, who have great difficulty with buoyancy, flapping at the surface or bouncing off the bottom, hand clutching inflator, eyes bulging with alarm, producing a white storm of bubbles more approriate to a submarine.

So no...give me an experienced diver, an old hand who does not cut corners because their training and experience has taught them the imprudence and folly of cutting corners. My own pre-dive check list and safety checks while submerged have expanded, not contracted, over the years. I think this is true of all really good divers.

I dive often in the Caribbean, frequently in the presence of awkward new divers who seldom check their SPGs, but can blab endlessly about their SAC rates and who expect the divemaster to 'take care' of them.

I keep my distance.

More experienced divers who have a few short years under their belt but who are fools, inclined push decomp limits, to seek out and push the the most 'liberal' computers, to make risky penetration dives, to push the envelope and take stupid risks because their tiny brains interpret all this as exhilarating adventure are equally to be avoided.

In my experience a good attitude is more often the result of many dives, lots of experience, learning to depend upon one's self, understanding that there are always real dangers and that we are completely and exclusively responsible for preparing to deal with them.

Experienced, careful, skilled divers who rigorously prepare for each dive are a third category between "the new diver who payed attention to his/her (frequently superficial and inadequate) training", and the sloppy corner cutting older diver who more often than not dives infrequently. For some reason you fail to mention them, though they constitute the majority of highly experienced divers. Pity, because they are the best people to dive with.
 
Stay out of it and let him decide for himself without trying to nanny everything. If he gets caught then so be it, if not then no problem. Its not your business to interfere.
 
As a new diver, I am really surprised at the responses in this thread. For everyone who is saying MYOB, well if the op looses his access to solo dive this site because of divers routinely breaking the established rules for a PRIVATE dive site, then it is his business. I say you should say something to the diver, and if he failed to correct it, then let the management know. You shouldn't allow his inability to follow the rules that he voluntarily agreed to end up costing you your access to the site. If the diver wants to dive solo w/o a redundant air supply let him do it somewhere other than the private property that has explicitly restricted it.
 
The OP knows nothing about the skills, ability or training of the other diver so in no way has any right to tell him what to do. Unless he's prepared to have total strangers coming up to him and ripping into his kit configuration/buoyancy control/diving skills and everything else as well. It works both ways.
Carry on doing your own thing and let others carry on doing theirs. No crime is being committed here, no instructional standards are being violated. If the other guy gets caught that's his own problem but really none of the business of the OP.
 
Unless you see the diver in distress MYOB, scuba police and tattletales are not needed.
 
well if the op looses his access to solo dive this site because of divers routinely breaking the established rules for a PRIVATE dive site, then it is his business.


Unsupported assumption; vague allusions to "litigation risk" do not justify every silly intrusion into others' business. If you truly believe that this behavior is risking your and others' access to a quarry, you're deluding yourself. If you just want to justify an urge to run tell mommy someone broke the rules, I already said what I think about that. The property owner(s) made the rules, let him/her/them enforce them. If you'd like to apply for a job as the SCUBA police at their quarry, perhaps they're taking applications.

Just for fun, though, let me turn your 'it takes a village to keep a dive site open' theory around. Let's say you make sure to enforce the site's regulations this time by running to the manager and conveying the issue; the manager does what many businesses do when things get out of order and completes an incident report while ejecting the offending diver -- you're listed as a witness in the report because you're such a helpful little darling. The next week you're diving there again and just as you're about to get in the water you see the same bonehead trying the same thing again...this time you're too busy to do the owners' job for them, and you ignore him.

He drowns, his estate/family sue the site, and in the course of discovery the incident report is produced. You're deposed about your knowledge of the dead bonehead's solo diving habits at that site, and during the deposition it becomes clear that sometimes you act as the self-appointed SCUBA police protecting ill-advised solo divers from themselves, and the decedent knew that from personal experience. Then it comes out that yes, you saw him about to violate the solo diving rules again the day he died, but no, you didn't do anything this time because you were lazy.

A few days later, the plaintiffs file a motion to amend their complaint to add a new defendant and new negligence claims. Hope your homeowner's insurance will help you pay your share of whatever settlement gets worked out. Certain? No. Even highly likely? Depends on what the plaintiffs' counsel thinks you're worth. A definite possibility and at least as likely as the 'the site might be closed if someone dies while not following the rules!!!' theory? Oh yes.
 
I'd be a little concerned that the person I ratted out, or a friend of his, might damage some of my gear someday when I'm not looking. Probably not, but it could happen.
 
As a new diver, I am really surprised at the responses in this thread. For everyone who is saying MYOB, well if the op looses his access to solo dive this site because of divers routinely breaking the established rules for a PRIVATE dive site, then it is his business. I say you should say something to the diver, and if he failed to correct it, then let the management know. You shouldn't allow his inability to follow the rules that he voluntarily agreed to end up costing you your access to the site. If the diver wants to dive solo w/o a redundant air supply let him do it somewhere other than the private property that has explicitly restricted it.

It is more likely the offending diver, if caught, will be banned from the site. If I was in the op's position I would somewhere in our chat point out the site rules, in case he didn't know, and call it good. When the owner starts paying me for enforcing his rules, then I would be obligated to do something.

For consistency sake, the next time you see a jaywalker or a driver parking in an unauthorized space, use your same action plan.



Bob
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"This is scuba board, where problems are imagined or overstated......and chests get thumped about what some would do about those "problems" "- PullMyFinger
 
And by your rational if someone ever breaks into your neighbors house then you should just ignore it. After all you are only myob.


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https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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