Question How to choose between Under the Jungle (MX) or GUE Cave 1 (FL) ?

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SaltyWombat

Contributor
Messages
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Reaction score
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Location
Monterey, Calif.
# of dives
500 - 999
Based on word of mouth, I hear great things about both Under the Jungle in Mexico and GUE Cave 1 in Florida. I'm a Fundies diver now.

My understanding is...

Mexico:
  • UTJ's instructors are great
  • Sidemount
  • Shallower caves
  • Lower flow
Florida:
  • GUE instructors are great
  • Backmount doubles
  • Deeper caves
  • Higher flow
I don't know the costs or time commitment for either path.

So how am I supposed to choose?
 
Based on word of mouth, I hear great things about both Under the Jungle in Mexico and GUE Cave 1 in Florida. I'm a Fundies diver now.

My understanding is...

Mexico:
  • UTJ's instructors are great
  • Sidemount
  • Shallower caves
  • Lower flow
Florida:
  • GUE instructors are great
  • Backmount doubles
  • Deeper caves
  • Higher flow
I don't know the costs or time commitment for either path.

So how am I supposed to choose?


I know this answer isn’t very GUE approved but why not do both? I like diverse opinions. That said I’m pretty sure you’ve already started down the GUE path so stick with it.
 
Based on word of mouth, I hear great things about both Under the Jungle in Mexico and GUE Cave 1 in Florida. I'm a Fundies diver now.

My understanding is...

Mexico:
  • UTJ's instructors are great
  • Sidemount
  • Shallower caves
  • Lower flow
Florida:
  • GUE instructors are great
  • Backmount doubles
  • Deeper caves
  • Higher flow
I don't know the costs or time commitment for either path.

So how am I supposed to choose?
This should be a blast....

You're kinda asking different questions from different approaches. There are other great instructors in Florida that arent GUE. Cave 1 with someone like Kelvin Davidson of 3D in Mexico is an awesome GUE course too, in a sweet location.

Are you looking for an agency/approach preference, or a locale preference?

It's like asking "Do I want to learn to fly cargo planes in the USAF, or do I want to learn to fly bush planes in remote Alaska?"

Different agencies, approaches, end-goals, ethos, and dispositions, and everywhere has an advantage or disadvantage, depending on who you talk to on a given day.
 
Based on word of mouth, I hear great things about both Under the Jungle in Mexico and GUE Cave 1 in Florida. I'm a Fundies diver now.

My understanding is...

Mexico:
  • UTJ's instructors are great
  • Sidemount
  • Shallower caves
  • Lower flow
Florida:
  • GUE instructors are great
  • Backmount doubles
  • Deeper caves
  • Higher flow
I don't know the costs or time commitment for either path.

So how am I supposed to choose?
Another option would be GUE Cave 1 in Mexico. There are several GUE instructors there. I took mine with Chris Le Maillot at Zero Gravity in Nov 2021. It was a great class and ZG was a great facility to dive with (and they have rooms to stay in as well). I chose Mexico over Florida because I wanted longer dives. The shallow water in Mexico allows for some long dives even with the Cave 1 restriction of 1/3 of 2/3 gas volume. I've already been back to Mexico once for some C1 fun diving.

Some of my local friends who did C1 in Mexico later did a workshop with Meredith Tanguay in Florida and it helped them learn the differences between the types of diving. I think that's a great approach and I would like to do something similar in the future.
 
Thanks for the comments so far. I suppose the heart of my question is about backmount vs. sidemount. Location is somewhat secondary in my calculation.

Sidemount seems more appropriate for caves, but I'm in the GUE world where sidemount isn't used except for specific situations. Maybe that's what I'm wrestling with.

Just being able to more easily look around and take in the beauty of the cave seems like a benefit.
 
Sidemount seems more appropriate for caves, but I'm in the GUE world where sidemount isn't used except for specific situations. Maybe that's what I'm wrestling with.

Just being able to more easily look around and take in the beauty of the cave seems like a benefit.

Sidemount isn’t plug and play like doubles. Can take a lot of time to get your gear dialed in. Learning cave and a different configuration at the same time probably isn’t the best idea. Might as well go with what you’re experienced with.

I did cavern/intro in 2020 at a location with no flow. Did three days of “intro to flow” with a FL instructor in December. That was fun! Good luck!
 
You didn't specifically mention your goals, so it's a little hard to know what exactly you're looking for, but here's some info that might help you.

1. Nat and Vince at Under the jungle are the two best dive instructors I have ever met, and I've been a professional educator for most of my life, so I'm good at evaluating instruction. The culture and standards at that shop are fantastic. And they're pretty GUE-friendly, there are lots of divers at the shop who come from GUE backgrounds.

2. For cave diving in Mexico, sidemount is overall better IMO, and I spent a few years diving BM in those caves before I switched, so I'm very familiar with both. I did intro and full cave courses at UTJ in backmount. If your goal is to cave dive in Mexico regularly, it's worth going for SM at some point, but there's nothing wrong with doing your courses in BM. The reasons I think SM is better in MX are several; most people are diving SM, so equipment matching with buddies is a bit easier, the topography lends itself well to SM, most restrictions are a little easier in SM and there are lots of SM-only passages where it's just too tight vertically for BM. It's also much easier with entries/exits in some of the tiny, rocky, slippery-slope cenote entrances. It's just overall physically easier and more flexible in the caves.

3. I think Mexico has some advantages for cave training. The caves are generally very shallow, so intro dives can be pretty decent. There's very low flow, which makes most things easier to learn, but also presents some extra challenges, particularly in terms of dealing with silt outs and some navigation things. Ultimately if your goal is to dive in FL, that's where you should train, but as someone mentioned there is no reason why you couldn't take some classes in both places.

One other thing, Mexico is generally a really fun place to hang out (for me), and it's cheap. Some people would rather not be in a country where the language is different, the food is different, etc... but I do. That's a personal preference.

I would send Nat an email and ask her all your questions. The cost for training there is very reasonable considering the quality and effort that goes into it. How much a course ends up costing depends on how many days it takes you to finish, and no good instructor can tell you that without first evaluating your dive skills.
 
Here's a few photos for you:
 

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Not sure this answers your question bu a I’ve been full cave for 10+ years and have things like dpv and ccr cave. I took fundies a year ago and will likely take gue cave 1 and 2 at some point for fun. I fully expect I will learn something in the classes even though I’ve been cave diving for a while.
Personally I wish I would have started the gue route and then as I gained experience, moved onto non gue training such as cave ccr or sm. At the same time, utj puts out good students
 
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