How to Avoid "Guided" Dives? I don't need/want my hand held.

[boulderjohn]

I would like to add something to the planning concept.

After a severe injury kept me out of diving for a while a number of years ago, I planned a trip to Mexico. I wanted to start with two days of simple recreational diving followed by deep technical and cave diving. Someone I know was very insistent that I try her favorite dive operation in Cozumel for the two days of recreational diving. I was hesitant because of a key red flag--only one boat. She was sure everything would be great, though, so I booked.

The first day was excellent. I was joined by only one other diver, and he was well-skilled. We had two wonderful dives, with a lot of time spent on my favorite Cozumel activity--swim throughs. "Good choice," I told myself.

The second day the same other diver and I got on the boat, but we were then joined by a husband and wife team who were on their first day of a week of diving with that DM and boat. We agreed on one of my favorite sites for the first dive (Columbia deep), but immediately upon descent, there was a problem. The wife frankly looked like she had never dived before. The DM took us to a shallow sandy patch and spent 5 minutes giving her a basic buoyancy lesson. We then went down to the planned dive, but we did not do the dive the way it would normally be done. The DM literally held her hand the entire dive. We passed by the great swim-throughs there without any thought of entering. The second dive was the same. The DM held her hand the entire time. These were pretty much the worst dives I had ever had in Cozumel, and I was glad I was not signed up for the rest of that week.

That second day was great for the husband and wife team, especially the wife, who got outstanding service from that DM. It was not so good for the rest of us. Having the ability to sort customers by experience is a definite factor in my choice of dive operations.

 

[Damselfish]

I think everyone can agree that not everyone's skills/desires/needs/budget/whatever are the same, and that finding the most compatible dive arrangement possible is important to most people. Nothing wrong with that.

I also think it helps not to make assumptions of any sort about a place in advance, based on other places you have been. (On the other end of the spectrum, you see people who have always happened to dive with a DM go someplace where that's _not_ standard, then rant about how "unsafe" the operation was.)

 

[Centrals]

Some operators that I came across insisted on a "check out" dive for every new customer regardless of his/her qualification. It was fine with me but some "experienced" found the idea was a totally rip off!!!
You just can't please everyone.

 

[Tribal]

With LoB’s in Egypte you do the first dive as check dive. From the 2nd on you have the choise to follow a guide or just go with your buddy. My gf and me prefer to dive like that since you can do your own thing.

 

[Diving Dubai]

An often debated subject.

Obviously as pointed out above, the diver needs to research dive ops to find one that suits them. If the dive centre they choose caters to newer divers, then you'll be diving with less experienced divers.

But then you have to look from the Dive centre's perspective.

All they have to go on before they meet you , is the information you provide. Number of dives, certification level and when your most recent dive was.

It's not unusual for people to exaggerate their abilities and experience, sometimes it's not malicious, because they truly believe that they are better than they actually are. It doesn't' matter if you turn up with the shiniest and most expensive gear - the only trues test is seeing someone on their initial dives.

You'll be surprised how much latitude dive ops give to the people who demonstrate that they are competent, dive by the rules and don't give the dive ops a hard time. The customers that demand respect - not so much.

Even before I was a Pro my wife and I were given lots of latitude to dive away from the group, or be allowed to surface on our own if others had come up early. As a Dive Pro I get professional courtesy, but still need to demonstrate that I'm competent. And I use the same yardstick to others.

 

[Hoag]

Perhaps the OP would like a trip run like the Aquacat runs theirs. They put at least one DM in the water for every dive. At the end of the Dive Site Briefing however, the DM asks something to the effect of "OK, who is coming with me? Who is going to do their own thing? See you in the water. The pool is open."

Although there is a DM in the water for every dive, there is no obligation to follow them.

 

[Schwob]

An interesting thread, despite the differences in oreferred semantics. Until my wife started to dive I was always doing what I could (after discussion and agreement) to stray away from the DM & group... or just dive w/o when possible. For our next trip and a past one however, I was and will be very happy to follow a DM, so I can fully focus on the two new divers in the family

Our Daughter is more of a fish, but still a brand spanking new diver and of an invincible age, which is a bit scary in context
The wife is the truly alien to in or under water life-form , who is getting quote comfortable with what she is doing, but only to a point and she'll benefit from company to let her push that point further out at her pace. I am a bit worried she for now might still have a few of those moments that might get her into the "category of belittling bad sementics used by some of the hero divers here". That's fine, she'll work out of it... at her pace.

Anyway I became the diver dedicated to dive with the very kind of diver I would otherwise choose very much to avoid when hanging out solo with the fish. But hey, I can still do the latter of course... (so far the wife had no interest to do more than 2 dives a day)...
and the thread is very interesting to me in that sense... So thanks...
Just those semantics... hurtful man...

 

[boulderjohn]

An interesting thread, despite the differences in preferred semantics. Until my wife started to dive I was always doing what I could (after discussion and agreement) to stray away from the DM & group...

It reminds me of a dive day in Cozumel a number of years ago. I was on a boat in which every diver was extremely experienced. As is required by law in Cozumel, we were to dive as a group led by a DM, but we had buddies within the group. The person I was buddied with had good skills, but he dived as you say you prefer to dive, doing all he could to stay away from the DM and the group.

That meant, of course, that he was also doing his best to stay away from me, his designated buddy. The first dive we did was Hell for me. I had to be something of the go-between, staying within sight of the group as best I could while also staying in sight of him. The DM knew we were all experienced, so he did not worry about the group's explorations too much--he figured we were all good enough to keep an eye on him and get back together. Some DMs would have been much more anal about keeping us all together.

For the second dive, we discussed possible sites. We decided to do a site that had an excellent, very long swim-through. It was also famous for having strong currents, and it did not disappoint in that regard. Once again, the DM was doing a fine job leading the dive, and once again, my buddy was hanging back, darting here and there, going wherever he wanted. I was then a fairly frequent visitor to Cozumel, so I knew when the the DM started to lead the group toward the swim-through that was the feature of the dive. I was in a real bind. I knew where they were going, and I saw where my buddy was going. I tried to stay in sight of both. The DM looked back and saw me. He gave me something of a "WTF?" signal. I pointed toward the edge of the reef, a little ahead of the group, to where my buddy was swimming merrily along.

The DM looked, and even from that distance I could see the dismay. The group was at the mouth of the swim-through. He signaled them to follow him instead, and he went after my buddy, knowing that the current would prevent them from getting back to the swim-through. Back on the boat, my buddy asked what had happened to the swim-through we were supposed to have experienced. One of the other divers tersely explained that we had to miss it so we could chase after him while everyone else glared at him. He didn't seem to care one bit.

So, I suggest you make sure the rest of the group knows you have that philosophy before the dive. It will make it all easier for everyone else.

 

[KathyV]

Perhaps the OP would like a trip run like the Aquacat runs theirs. They put at least one DM in the water for every dive. At the end of the Dive Site Briefing however, the DM asks something to the effect of "OK, who is coming with me? Who is going to do their own thing? See you in the water. The pool is open."

Although there is a DM in the water for every dive, there is no obligation to follow them.

He might like Blackbeards LOB even better (although the accommodations are not as nice!) but they clearly state on their website:

"The dives offered on Blackbeard’s are unescorted. The instructor on board will give you a good, in depth briefing before each dive describing the conditions, the current, depth, and it will include a visual aide. The instructor and/or staff will be in the water for all drift dives and the shark feed! We do have crewmembers that would be happy to act as guides when they aren’t busy with other duties."

 

[Schwob]

It reminds me of a dive day in Cozumel a number of years ago. I was on a boat in which every diver was extremely experienced. As is required by law in Cozumel, we were to dive as a group led by a DM, but we had buddies within the group. The person I was buddied with had good skills, but he dived as you say you prefer to dive, doing all he could to stay away from the DM and the group.

That meant, of course, that he was also doing his best to stay away from me, his designated buddy. The first dive we did was Hell for me. I had to be something of the go-between, staying within sight of the group as best I could while also staying in sight of him. The DM knew we were all experienced, so he did not worry about the group's explorations too much--he figured we were all good enough to keep an eye on him and get back together. Some DMs would have been much more anal about keeping us all together.

For the second dive, we discussed possible sites. We decided to do a site that had an excellent, very long swim-through. It was also famous for having strong currents, and it did not disappoint in that regard. Once again, the DM was doing a fine job leading the dive, and once again, my buddy was hanging back, darting here and there, going wherever he wanted. I was then a fairly frequent visitor to Cozumel, so I knew when the the DM started to lead the group toward the swim-through that was the feature of the dive. I was in a real bind. I knew where they were going, and I saw where my buddy was going. I tried to stay in sight of both. The DM looked back and saw me. He gave me something of a "WTF?" signal. I pointed toward the edge of the reef, a little ahead of the group, to where my buddy was swimming merrily along.

The DM looked, and even from that distance I could see the dismay. The group was at the mouth of the swim-through. He signaled them to follow him instead, and he went after my buddy, knowing that the current would prevent them from getting back to the swim-through. Back on the boat, my buddy asked what had happened to the swim-through we were supposed to have experienced. One of the other divers tersely explained that we had to miss it so we could chase after him while everyone else glared at him. He didn't seem to care one bit.

So, I suggest you make sure the rest of the group knows you have that philosophy before the dive. It will make it all easier for everyone else.

Well, that's good general advice, but does not really apply as such to me as I am not that buddy. I do talk to the DM (edit: and the buddy). If it's i.e. a neg. buoancy hot drop and get down to depth in high current together as a group than we'll be right there... and then spread out a bit on the ride at depth...
I either am a buddy or I am solo.. not inbetween and as far as keeping away from the DM (well, the DM is just fine, the bunching up of divers around him / her ... if it is that sort if dive is the problem. Me and my buddy (mostly my son so far) just stay far enough away to still be well in sight and sign communication range. Mostly even just some 30' ...50' (pending vis) away from the "horde" things are already nicely better in terms of "nature experience" and there is enough room timewise to take an extra peak under a ledge or so w/o risking to loose the group. And of course if it's a guided feature dive maybe like i.e . through a bunch of swim throughs on the Spiegel Grove and we said we do that then that's what we do... and follow... but if i.e. the DM on the LOB in the Red Sea agreed to have my buddy and I go at it on our own... and we still are up to it after the briefing (did change my mind a couple of times during the briefing) then that's what we'll do... No sinister making the DM's life hard here... (giving him / her a little hard time with a poke or two after a dive if i.e. the DM got lost big time could happen so...)