How to answer "what is your highest certification level"?

[BlueTrin]

I haven't studied this very problem thoroughly, so you might be correct.
... about the orthogonality

Maybe I demand too much.

I agree with you that especially when you go deep or reach a level like rescue you need to be a bit independent.

But for example, if you do SDI solo diver there are a few things that aren’t taught so much in a rescue class:
- make sure someone knows where you dive if you solo dive, when you’ll be in the water and out of the water and preferably when they should call emergencies if they don’t see you (this is for example not obvious for a shore dive)

- carry redundant cutting tools that are accessible easily

- backup torches, DSMB and mask

The emphasis is more about starting the dive alone without a buddy.

I agree, that ideally, at some point a diver should be self-reliant though.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

There may be no ceiling, on the potential quality of training by any individual in any organization. However, it's worth considering whether there is a floor...


IMO, every responsible diver, dives as if they're 100.0% responsible for their own safety, and never rely on a buddy. The dive buddy is only an additional (3rd) redundancy. If both buddies have an incident at the same time, you're both screwed. I often solo-dive, but in the rare cases I have a dive-buddy, they're not exactly reliable and visibility often makes dive-buddies almost impossible.

I haven't done any rescue-course yet, but it would seem you need more redundancy yourself, to effectively rescue another diver.

I would argue that ALL divers must become self-reliant at some point, as buddy separation and simultaneous emergencies where each one must fend for themselves do occur. And I'm thinking of an incident on a shipwreck in my local area where two highly trained/skilled GUE divers were separated and both had entanglements to deal with. If people at that level can get separated and have such problems, what does it mean for the rest of us? Self-reliance is key. It doesn't mean abandoning team-based diving, but it does meaning addressing the reality of buddy separation.

 

[scubadada]

... and where would you rank the SDI Solo and PADI Self Reliant certs ?

Shouldn't a deep diver be self reliant, by definition?
A rescue diver ever more so! How can you rescue, if you rely on your buddy?

Deep diver and Rescue Diver do not teach the same skills as Solo Diver or Self-Reliant Diver, pony use, DSMB deployment...

 

[Subcooled]

There may be no ceiling, on the potential quality of training by any individual in any organization. However, it's worth considering whether there is a floor...

And so the war begins.
The floor is taboo.

I only want to discuss agencies (any of them) in private.

 

[Wibble]

The SDI Solo Diver is not a course per-se. It’s a workshop to assess your existing skills that you bring along as the prerequisites.

About the only thing I learned was notifying people and writing a contact sheet + dive plan (will be diving 'there' from this time to that and will have X kit with SMB, etc.)

Maybe it’s different if you’re a recreational diver who’s not familiar with redundant equipment as is normal for technical divers; spare mask, two SMBs, three or more cutting devices, redundant gas supplies (twinset, sidemount, bailout), two torches, spare reel, two computers, etc., etc.

My Solo Diver workshop was a thorough beasting to test everything from shutdowns, entanglement, prioritising problem solving, dive skills and ascent safety. At that time I was a normoxic trimix diver so well practiced with all of that.

Lots of fun but definitely not for the inexperienced, which is the point.

 

[SlugLife]

The SDI Solo Diver is not a course per-se. It’s a workshop to assess your existing skills that you bring along as the prerequisites.

Interesting. Are you saying SDI doesn't teach you those skills, just tests them? Or that skills are taught, but redundant for most technical divers?

It is of course worth noting that a course from one dive-shop, dive-agency, or dive-instructor may be radically different from another. One course might be a 5-day extensive training course with lots of teaching, skills, redundancy, etc. While another might have an identical title, but is a single open-waters session where you switch regs, cut a rope, then get a rubber-stamp certificate at the end. That's why I don't only ask how much it costs, but also what I'll be learning/doing.

 

[Wibble]

Interesting. Are you saying SDI doesn't teach you those skills, just tests them? Or that skills are taught, but redundant for most technical divers?

It is of course worth noting that a course from one dive-shop, dive-agency, or dive-instructor may be radically different from another. One course might be a 5-day extensive training course with lots of teaching, skills, redundancy, etc. While another might have an identical title, but is a single open-waters session where you switch regs, cut a rope, then get a rubber-stamp certificate at the end. That's why I don't only ask how much it costs, but also what I'll be learning/doing.

It's two days.

Solo diving is for life. Your life depends upon your ability to plan, perform and react to issues. Two days is not enough to learn and perfect solo diving skills if they're not already solid.

It *should* be that it's a big assessment and only people with demonstrable skills get through.

Preparation courses could easily be the technical classes with practice time.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

Interesting. Are you saying SDI doesn't teach you those skills, just tests them? Or that skills are taught, but redundant for most technical divers?

My SDI Solo course, the instructor spent a whole day with myself, and the other student. He picked our brains and peppered us with questions for the entire day. He also went through all our gear to make sure we had the required gear. Little details, like two independant bungee cords, holding my primary computer (not one cord through both sides), same with my compass. Making sure we had dry suits that one can self don. Gas planning, gas planning, gas planning. Did not go near water on the 1st day. Instructors thoughts, are we had to get through the 1st day, to his satisfaction, if we wanted to get in the water the next day.

 

[Doby45]

My Solo course was a joke as I had already been a tech/cave diver for a while. I literally took the "class" to get the card. I agree 100% with @Wibble, the class really depends on what angle you are coming at it from. A pure recreational diver will be learning stuff and hopefully picking up some skills and a technical diver should be going over stuff he/she pretty much already knows.

 

[Marie13]

My Solo course was a joke as I had already been a tech/cave diver for a while. I literally took the "class" to get the card. I agree 100% with @Wibble, the class really depends on what angle you are coming at it from. A pure recreational diver will be learning stuff and hopefully picking up some skills and a technical diver should be going over stuff he/she pretty much already knows.

I did solo about 6 weeks before I did cavern/intro. The solo instructor is cave trained and knew I was doing my intro class soon. The mask off exercise involved following a line strung all around a big platform. I had no issues with that skill. Big confidence builder and made the same skill in my intro class go much smoother.

I probably got more out of solo class than if I I’d taken it after intro to cave.

I already had SM experience so that helped as well.