How those idiots (us) run out of air

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I was in Coz in Feb and had the opposite experience..the DM and another guy were LF hunting and chased a little one down to 140ft and were putzing around.( we stayed at 90ft waiting) There was little current as we were in some structure.. after a minute or two I signaled my wife, and we did the dive on our own.

Bill, I really think you need to get comfortable doing an open water ascent and safety stop on your own..
Have you done boat dives in Monterey? Maybe you could hire a DM and do a few boat dives there and get comfortable?
 
Consider which would bug the DM worse. You and your wife drowning or him/her getting back to the boat and reaming you out for leaving the dive early without notifying him/her. My answer, don't sweat the small stuff. Sweat the large stuff.
 
I think it's a pitfall for those of us who have access to a lot of good shore diving, that we simply don't do direct ascents enough. Your statement that you couldn't "bolt" from the DM because you can't do direct ascents tells me you were in a precarious position through the whole dive -- dependent on either the downline or the DM to get to the surface safely. I think this tells you that, while you are on this trip, you should practice as many direct ascents as you can. And when you get home, despite the ensuing surface swim, make yourself surface before you get back to shore (where it is safe to do so) so that you practice.

One of the problems with being a new diver is that there are a whole bunch of things you don't know and can't do. I know I couldn't navigate in Puget Sound well at all when I started, and I did dive with other people and ceded responsibility for that to them. But all the sites where we dove were sites where, in the last resort, I could simply surface and swim in from there, so I figured it wasn't too bad to let somebody else navigate while I learned to deal with other things.

But when you find yourself on a dive where you are running out of breathing gas supply and you can't go to the surface because you don't know how, and you can't get back to the ascent line unless the DM takes you there, you are really getting a strong lesson in the fact that your diving skills are not well matched to the dives you are doing. Unlike my navigation thing, where I COULD extricate myself if I lost all my help, you put yourselves in a position where you couldn't, or felt you couldn't, and watched your gas disappear. And running out of gas is the trigger for a great many of the fatalities recorded in the DAN reports, so this really isn't something you want to do.

We all had to learn to do stuff. Nobody comes out of OW good at free ascents, bag shoots, and gas management. You were lucky enough to get through a potentially very dangerous situation without getting hurt, but you shouldn't let pride or sensitivity get in the way of the seriousness of the lesson you have learned. If your diving skills and capacity are too far below the challenges of the dive you are doing, it's a setup for a bad outcome. Assessing what you bring to the table and whether it's enough is a critical skill for a diver -- any diver.
 
Reminds me of my Nav class in Monterey, off of my instructor's Zodiak.

There were only two students and other one, well, sucked. No matter how many times I told her that she should signal me her heading so I, as her buddy, could assist in keeping straight, she would just take off FAST, forcing the instructor to swim hard to keep her in sight and me to swim hard to keep him in sight. (Vis was no more than 10'.) Then, she'd suddenly stop and we'd almost plow into each other.

Yet, before I could ask her what her heading had been, so that I could help with the reciprocal, she'd be off again and again we'd chase her through the green. Again, she'd suddenly stop and then, give both of us a huge shrug. She had no idea where she was, and because we'd been swimming hard to keep up with her, neither did we.

No option, but to do a "green water" ascent.

I'd never done one until that first dive. But, as she repeated her horrid "navigation" each dive, no matter what our instructor or I said, I got A LOT of practice with free ascents in very low vis.
 
I really dislike free ascents.

My buoyancy is still a work in progress. Most of my dives have been shore - follow the contour - or boat - up and down the line.

Did a dive in Monterey in the spring, and I am sure my buddy thought I was pretty bad with the way I struggled at our safety stop - he would be right. I think I would have been better to shoot my DSMB so I would have had a physical 'anchor'.

It is definitely something I need to work on.
 
That is why you shoot a bag and why it's part of my advanced classes. It gives you a visual and tactile reference for the ascent.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
 
I would add that in DIR we have a canister light with us, that has the light worn over the top of your left hand( so you still have 100% use of both hands)....and that if you want to signal someone--like this DM, you wave the beam in front of them rapidly, indicating an urgent issue. Can lights are expensive, but now there are also some Goodman Handle kits for inexpensive dive lights...see http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/li...-handle-dris-1000-500-lights.html#post6444616

And see the can light...Bimini | Halcyon and Mini-Explorer | Halcyon

Sounds like an equipment solution...


My preferred system is by hundreds. Sure it may take 5 or 6 seconds to give me the air early on but it is much easier if you are slightly narced at 100 ft.

Do you mean that you count 100s i.e. if your pressure is 1000 you signal 100 x 10? If so, sounds like it would be easy for your buddy to miscount, especially when slightly narced as you mention
 
Hey, Bill...

I don't mean to come off as condescending. I'm just a recreational diver, and I'm always learning and rethinking my procedures. And as I said, it's brave of you to post here. But the point of posting here isn't to defend yourself, but to learn, right? I think that some very experienced people here are telling you that you might want to rethink these assumptions, just so the next time you are encounter a problem on a dive and you are running through options in your head, you don't put "having something to breathe" behind "stay with dive guide" in your priority list.

No one is suggesting that you spend all your time training, but if you are doing open ocean dives, it's a good idea to at least train to use an SMB, for precisely this situation. What would you have done if you lost the DM? A stretch dive is one that is beyond your previous experience (in terms of depth, current, time, or conditions) that you plan for and execute, and learn from. In this dive, you made - in my opinion anyway - a decision that could have been lethal, but you got lucky.

If this doesn't get your attention, nothing that we say here will...

I'm with doctormike on this one ... the priority in this situation is running out of air, and you should be doing whatever is needful to make sure it doesn't happen. When a diver runs out of air at depth, it means something went very ... very ... wrong with the dive. And at the point that you realize that one of you is getting low, your absolute priority is to get to a place where there is air to breathe ... on a recreational dive, that usually means the surface. All other considerations about your dive at that point take lower priorities, and are nothing more than problems that can be resolved once you've established a reasonable breathing supply for the diver in trouble.

Open water ascents are not difficult. If you're going to be diving in open water, it's a skill you should know. Like any other skill, it requires some initial supervision and a bit of practice. An SMB can make those ascents easier, although it isn't necessary ... but it's also not a difficult skill to learn. I emphasize both of these skills at the AOW level. Knowing those skills can turn what could have been an emergency into nothing more than a minor inconvenience ... which is how it should be.

During OW classes, most instructors teach you to consider "what if" situations as part of your dive planning. So ask yourself this ... what if the DM hadn't turned around? What if the DM had a problem with another diver, and wasn't able to assist you or your wife? What if the DM had an injury underwater and required your assistance? What would you have done?

I understand exactly where the OP is at ... when I was a relatively new diver I had a very similar experience, except that we didn't have a DM to rely on. My wife ran totally out of air at 60 feet ... and we had to make a blue-water ascent while sharing air from my tank. It was totally my fault ... because I was focusing on the wrong things, and she was depending on me to "keep her safe". Neither of us had the skills to do that ascent properly ... although we didn't realize it until we were in that situation. It was a wake-up call ... and even now it evokes a bad feeling whenever I think about it. That experience caused me to rethink a great deal of what I thought I knew about scuba diving, and was the driving factor behind the creation of the Gas Management article and seminars I've been pushing for the past decade.

The most important thing I learned ... the most important thing I hope the OP learns ... don't rely on someone else to make your safety decisions for you. They might have different priorities ... they might misunderstand what you're trying to tell them ... they might be unable to assist you at a critical time ... or they might just not care. Professional assistance is all well and good ... but it's inherently unreliable. Rely on yourself. If you're uncomfortable with your ability to perform a self-rescue, do whatever it takes to attain the needed skills ... through a class or merely by going out and practicing with an experienced mentor. But most importantly ... and the thing that makes me uncomfortable reading some of the comments from the OP ... rethink your priorities. Staying with the DM should have been secondary to turning the dive when you knew you should have. You did the right thing by communicating with the DM. But when she did not respond as you felt she should have, then it's up to you to assert your responsibility to yourself and your wife by turning around, or beginning an ascent. At that point, gaining the surface before one of you ran out of air was your absolute priority ... not relying on the DM because she had more air than you did.

The second thing I learned ... and the conclusion of my personal story about what happened to me and my wife 12 years ago ... I had an unrealistic view of my own ability to deal with an emergency. When we reached the surface, I instinctively let go of her BCD. She was exhausted from an ascent she was not properly trained to do, and was too tired to keep herself afloat by finning. She started to sink immediately. I reached down and grabbed her shoulder strap, pulled her back to the surface, and manually inflated her BCD for her. Neither one of us had been trained to deal with this emergency. Neither one of us thought to dump our weights. Had I not been able to grab her when I did, she'd have sank back to the bottom ... without air. Thinking about that still, to this day, creeps me out.

The thought that your wife was in the most serious emergency she can experience as a recreational scuba diver should be causing you to reconsider your priorities as well.

Think about it ... and do whatever it takes to learn the appropriate skills so you don't have to rely on someone else to bail you out if you should find yourself in that situation again. It doesn't have to be a class ... sounds like you've got some experienced divers down your way who are willing to help you ... take them up on it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
We need to learn more skills, e.g.open water ascents, gas planning. Like I said, we should have taken out the signalling devices that we do have and signalled the DM to turn the dive. Like I said, we were idiots for relying too much on someone else. But to attempt an open water ascent when there is a strong surface current and swim away from a gas supply is a bad idea.

We have SMBs. Errrr...we have yet to open them, not even on the surface. (I am admitting my deficiencies here.). We have been practicing ascending next to the anchor line so as to develop the ability to being able to do OW ascents. We will look more carefully at doing descents using less air. And the discussion has opened my awareness to gas planning-- don't really know anything about it (once again admitting my deficiencies). Navigation is another matter entirely (more deficiencies). Maybe we should stay home in bed and read a book instead of diving.

Yes, we do not have all the requisite skills to do these dives on our own. But both my wife and I feel comfortable doing them here with a DM around, although not on our own. So at least we recognize our deficiencies. And now I that we have done 4 or 5 of them (and there is less surface current) we feel pretty confident.

Thanks for the comments.

Bill
 
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