How those idiots (us) run out of air

[phoenix31tt]

Think about it ... and do whatever it takes to learn the appropriate skills so you don't have to rely on someone else to bail you out if you should find yourself in that situation again. It doesn't have to be a class ... sounds like you've got some experienced divers down your way who are willing to help you ... take them up on it ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Did some dives with an immensely experienced diver this weekend, and this was a major topic of our conversations, but this is a way of life for me... i never rely on someone else to be responsible for me.. I have to do that for myself and it applies even more to diving...

But to attempt an open water ascent when there is a strong surface current and swim away from a gas supply is a bad idea.

that shouldn't be the case... it would be the better idea for me (unless the gas supply was two feet away from you)... but i'm good at open water ascents (i would've never guessed it was a difficult thing to do)... so i guess the point is... what seems like a bad idea without the proper practice, may actually be the better idea with practice and experience

 

[danvolker]

We need to learn more skills, e.g.open water ascents, gas planning. Like I said, we should have taken out the signalling devices that we do have and signalled the DM to turn the dive. Like I said, we were idiots for relying too much on someone else. But to attempt an open water ascent when there is a strong surface current and swim away from a gas supply is a bad idea.


Bill

Hi Bill,
Imagine yourself at 50 feet deep, with you and your wife suddenly both OOA. You have NO choice but to rush for the surface, and you have no idea if you will survive given your lack of experience with emergency ascents like this.....As you begin this panicked rush to the surface, one of the things bouncing around in your brain is the awareness that your wife had been counting on you---and that your bad judgement may well have just killed the woman you love.

One of your biggest jobs on a dive , is to make decisions throughout the dive that will ABSOLUTELY PREVENT such a scenario from ever happening....this is why that REGARDLESS of where the DM is, when you get lower than 1000 psi, the two of you are heading up....this needs to be like a promise you have made to your wife, and her to you. Any DM that motions you to keep going, screw him.....your life means more..Your wife's life means more.........You have no idea if the DM is even competent. Your best assumption if he is motioning you to keep going with "Low on Air" going on, is that the DM is dangerously incompetent.

So the next thing to imagine, is how bad is it to be on the surface with your wife, with an inflated BC, and it being just the 2 of you.....worst case, the current is pulling you away from the boat....Big Deal!...You are breathing. You are both floating comfortably, and you could both survive like this for a very long time.....The boat is going to see you, and they WILL pick you up as soon as they can....This is a complete non-issue, compared to the the DANGER of the two of you actually running OOA underwater. Even if you had good CESA skills, the correct solution is to avoid the OOA, and to get to the surface with plenty of margin....the ascent at 1000 psi..... Maybe when you have 200 more dives, you can change the 1000 psi number to 800, but for now, you are blowing through alot of air in a stress scenario, and 1000 is an easy number to watch for, react to, and one with enough reserve for any recreational ascents you are likely to be doing in the next few months.

If this is scary...then my best advice is get an instructor to work with your wife and you on doing free ascents ( breathing the whole time, just no line to follow) and get enough under your belt that they don't scare you. I don't think anyone should be diving without the belief that they can accomplish an ascent to the surface themself, without a line.....
Forget the idea of taking "the next" class in line in the PADI modular approach.....there is a KEY SKILL you and your wife MUST HAVE prior to doing any more diving. That is the skill you need to worry about....not Nitrox, not navigation...not some badge that is supposed to mean a higher level of diving....This key skill is what you need first.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

We need to learn more skills, e.g.open water ascents, gas planning. Like I said, we should have taken out the signalling devices that we do have and signalled the DM to turn the dive. Like I said, we were idiots for relying too much on someone else. But to attempt an open water ascent when there is a strong surface current and swim away from a gas supply is a bad idea.

As in most things scuba-related, it depends. But based on your description of the incident, it is not a bad idea. Consider that by surfacing you are swimming toward the largest gas supply in the world. Once there, the worst you have to deal with is getting picked up by the boat ... which can be an inconvenience, but hardly life-threatening. By sticking with the DM, you were giving up one certain source of air for an uncertain one ... and trading an inconvenience for a potential life-threatening situation. Is that really a good decision?

We have SMBs. Errrr...we have yet to open them, not even on the surface. (I am admitting my deficiencies here.). We have been practicing ascending next to the anchor line so as to develop the ability to being able to do OW ascents. We will look more carefully at doing descents using less air. And the discussion has opened my awareness to gas planning-- don't really know anything about it (once again admitting my deficiencies). Navigation is another matter entirely (more deficiencies). Maybe we should stay home in bed and read a book instead of diving.

Yes, we do not have all the requisite skills to do these dives on our own. But both my wife and I feel comfortable doing them here with a DM around, although not on our own. So at least we recognize our deficiencies. And now I that we have done 4 or 5 of them (and there is less surface current) we feel pretty confident.

The first step toward learning is recognizing what you need to learn. That's a positive. Build on it ... that's how it's supposed to work.

Take none of this as criticism ... you're following the same learning curve most experienced divers did. If it helps, I doubt it's possible for you to make a mistake I haven't made at some point in the past. Don't stay home in bed ... get out and enjoy life ... and when you make mistakes, ask yourself what you can do to make sure you don't make it again. That's how we improve.

Thanks for creating this topic ... I think it's a valuable one, and that a lot of people at your stage of learning can benefit from the discussion it spawned ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[flots am]

. . .

 

[doctormike]

But to attempt an open water ascent when there is a strong surface current and swim away from a gas supply is a bad idea

...

Maybe we should stay home in bed and read a book instead of diving.

...

Yes, we do not have all the requisite skills to do these dives on our own. But both my wife and I feel comfortable doing them here with a DM around, although not on our own. So at least we recognize our deficiencies. And now I that we have done 4 or 5 of them (and there is less surface current) we feel pretty confident.

Thanks for the comments.

Bill

This last post actually makes me sad, because it seems at this point that you are more concerned with defending your actions than learning and listening to what some very experienced divers are telling you. This is not a court of law. I assume that you didn't post your story so we would congratulate you on surviving your "stretch dive" and your ability to stick with the DM.

From what you told us, your wife could have died on this dive if the second DM was helping another diver who was low on air (or didn't see your wife, or was low on gas herself, or any number of other scenarios). And the worst part is that you still are resolute in your opinion that the number one task that you had was to stay with the DM and ascend the line.

When you say "Maybe we should stay home in bed and read a book instead of diving", it sounds childish, as if all of our reasoned comments are being dismissed. It suggests that the only problem here is that people on this forum are being arbitrarily mean to you, that we are saying that if you aren't an advanced technical diver you shouldn't be in the water. People here are voluntarily spending their time writing to you, trying to help you, and that's not a good way of responding.

Bottom line - you should not be doing a dive that you "feel confident doing with a DM around, but not on your own". Saying that tells me that your gas planning involves the gas on the DM's back. You may not be so lucky the next time.

I hope that you don't take my words the wrong way. I'm just trying to help you be safe, just like the other posters with a lot more experience than me. Please think about this.

 

[Tortuga68]

... when I was a relatively new diver I had a very similar experience, except that we didn't have a DM to rely on. My wife ran totally out of air at 60 feet ... and we had to make a blue-water ascent while sharing air from my tank. It was totally my fault ...

Was she certified at that time?

 

[Wineaux]

Bill, have you and Emily done any boat dives in Monterey? There are plenty of boats going out every weekend (and some during the week). It might be beneficial to get an instructor to go out with you for a couple dives to do some boat diving and free descent/ascent training with you. I think you have mentioned Emily gets motion sickness? Definitely have her take some Dramamine/Bonine the night before and that morning or get the patch for her if you do this.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Was she certified at that time?

Yes ... but we had not truly understood much of what we "learned" ... and as is often the case with married couples going through the learning process together, one had grown dependant on the other for the decision-making.

That's a significant part of the message in the OP ... depending on another diver for your safety is inherently unsafe ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[danvolker]

Sounds like an equipment solution...

Everything is relative.....the can light for signalling to others -- is about as much of the equipment solution to a skills problem ..as is a scuba tank to freediving...... because you don't have the skill required to swim down to a 60 foot reef on a breath, and stay there for a few minutes before ascending.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Dan, using light signals is all well and good if you're diving with people who understand what they mean.

In most tourist locations ... doing guided dives with a DM ... even if people can see the light, they don't usually have a clue what you're doing, other than waving your light around.

There are two components to underwater communication ... sending a clear signal, and understanding what it means. Without both components, the signal doesn't accomplish much.

In this case, it's highly doubtful that a canister light would've done anything at all to affect the outcome ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)