How those idiots (us) run out of air

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Bill, all surface current is going to do to an ascent is make you move away from the boat. That's why anybody diving off a boat should have SOME kind of device for signaling the boat from the surface, if you end up there in a place you aren't supposed to be. Even very experienced divers can wind up in a situation where they can't get back to the upline -- we had half a boatful end up in that place off Southern California a couple of years ago, when the current turned out to be much worse than it was billed.

The worst thing that will happen to you, if you attempt a blue water ascent and don't control it well, is that you'll end up with too fast an ascent rate. If you don't hold your breath, the likelihood that anything bad will come of that is gratifyingly low, especially if you have been staying within prudent limits for very inexperienced divers. On the other hand, staying underwater when you are low or almost out of gas, on the theory that you will be able to successfully share gas with the DM and make an ascent with him or her is making a LOT more assumptions. Bob has pointed out some situations that could lead to the DM being unable to help you -- you should NEVER make a PLAN that involves depending on someone else's gas -- and that includes plans that are made on the spur of the moment, when a low on gas situation is discovered. When you are low on gas, the FIRST PRIORITY, BEST option is the surface. That's what you were taught in OW -- remember the question where you have to number the options according to what's best and what's last-ditch? Sharing gas with someone else is below making a normal ascent BEFORE you are out of gas. That's a better answer.

I have posted a number of my own screwups here on SB, and it can be very hard to sit on your hands and take the criticism that people are happy to dish out when a diver has made a mistake. But the bottom line is that debriefing incidents like this is a powerful learning experience, or it can be. When someone retreats into being defensive and trying to justify decisions or actions that a near-total consensus feels were in error, that person has thrown away the biggest value of participating in a forum like this.

We are essentially ALL telling you that you made a mistake by staying underwater to remain near the DM. You've gotten several well-written and cogent explanations as to why. The best learning here is to look at WHY you made this decision, and figure out where the flaws in the reasoning were, or whether you were working off reason or emotion. The thing to fix is the issue that led to a bad choice, whether that's fixed by more education, more training, or just an opportunity to think things through away from the emotion and stress of having to deal with it underwater.

We ALL make mistakes. Smart people learn from them; not so smart people justify and repeat them. I work hard not to fall in the latter class, even when the learning experience is painful.
 
Last edited:
Personally, I think this dive fell apart before they got into the water. In this case, the dive was either not properly matched to the abilities of the diver or the divers did not understand the nature of the dive.

If this dive did in fact require the divers to return to the upline to ascend for safety reasons then this dive is no longer really a recreational dive. If "ascending from where ever the divers happened to be during an emergency" was always an option, then clearly, there was a communication issue. Either way, this stuff needed to be sorted out long before anybody got into their dive gear.
 
Don't follow the dive guide like a sheep. If you run low on air you need to turn the dive and look after yourself. Signal to the dive guide first if possible. You don't want to appear in the Accidents Forum.
 
Bill, all surface current is going to do to an ascent is make you move away from the boat. That's why anybody diving off a boat should have SOME kind of device for signaling the boat from the surface, if you end up there in a place you aren't supposed to be. Even very experienced divers can wind up in a situation where they can't get back to the upline -- we had half a boatful end up in that place off Southern California a couple of years ago, when the current turned out to be much worse than it was billed.

The worst thing that will happen to you, if you attempt a blue water ascent and don't control it well, is that you'll end up with too fast an ascent rate. If you don't hold your breath, the likelihood that anything bad will come of that is gratifyingly low, especially if you have been staying within prudent limits for very inexperienced divers. On the other hand, staying underwater when you are low or almost out of gas, on the theory that you will be able to successfully share gas with the DM and make an ascent with him or her is making a LOT more assumptions. Bob has pointed out some situations that could lead to the DM being unable to help you -- you should NEVER make a PLAN that involves depending on someone else's gas -- and that includes plans that are made on the spur of the moment, when a low on gas situation is discovered. When you are low on gas, the FIRST PRIORITY, BEST option is the surface. That's what you were taught in OW -- remember the question where you have to number the options according to what's best and what's last-ditch? Sharing gas with someone else is below making a normal ascent BEFORE you are out of gas. It's a better answer.

I have posted a number of my own screwups here on SB, and it can be very hard to sit on your hands and take the criticism that people are happy to dole out when a diver has made a mistake. But the bottom line is that debriefing incidents like this is a powerful learning experience, or it can be. When someone retreats into being defensive and trying to justify decisions or actions that a near-total consensus feels were in error, that person has thrown away the biggest value of participating in a forum like this.

We are essentially ALL telling you that you made a mistake by staying underwater to remain near the DM. You've gotten several well-written and cogent explanations as to why. The best learning here is to look at WHY you made this decision, and figure out where the flaws in the reasoning were, or whether you were working off reason or emotion. The thing to fix is the issue that led to a bad choice, whether that's fixed by more education, more training, or just an opportunity to think things through away from the emotion and stress of having to deal with it underwater.

We ALL make mistakes. Smart people learn from them; not so smart people justify and repeat them. I work hard not to fall in the latter class, even when the learning experience is painful.

Maybe I will feel differently after some more time elapses.

Bill
 
First dive in a new location (St Eustatius). Heavy (for us) current at surface. Descended and regs sucked water. Returned to surface, changed regs and went down again with 2200 lbs. A bit anxious due to new environment and surface conditions. Had 1800 at bottom( 50 ft). Swam around a bit and signalled to DM at half a tank. Went a little bit more (1st mistake) and signalled to DM 1800 (but I meant to signal 1300). As with every dive guide I have ever had, she turned and went further from ascent line. Now the anxiety increased and air consumption with it. Back to ascent line at 500 and we began sharing air. My wife ran our of air shortly after me, she probably was overanxious about me.

We all returned safely and ascended slowly. So a happy ending. But we did both run out, and good thing there were TWO dive guides!

Second dives of the day were much easier and uneventful.

Bill

Sounds like you learned a valuable lesson! Good divers recognize their mistakes and learn from them. This is one that you will (hopefully) never forget. Happy to hear that you and your wife are fine.

Kind regards,
 
Sounds like an equipment solution...

Do you mean that you count 100s i.e. if your pressure is 1000 you signal 100 x 10? If so, sounds like it would be easy for your buddy to miscount, especially when slightly narced as you mention

2300 would be 5 fingers (open hand facing me) slowly opened and closed 4 times followed by 3 fingers. So 1000 is two open hands.

If it is an instabuddy regardless of the method, I usually check their gauge a couple times to make sure we are communicating correctly. Try to get a feel for their SAC rate vs mine. We have agreed on turn pressure and agreed on ascent pressures.
 
Obviously I'm wrong...

I can actually see where this is all coming from.

If divers only went on dives they're qualified to do without a "guide", some island economies would collapse. Bad for the SCUBA industry. Bad for tourism.

The entire industry is based on "follow me and you'll be OK".

This works great until it doesn't.

It's really unfortunate that OW class doesn't have more "Oh Shi*!" requirements that drive home exactly what the risks are underwater. A book chapter and test questions that cover things like "what to do when you're low on air" would be great too.

flots.
 
2300 would be 5 fingers (open hand facing me) slowly opened and closed 4 times followed by 3 fingers. So 1000 is two open hands.

?
I just use what the military taught me: 1-5 =fingers are shown vertical, 6-9 =fingers are shown horizontal. Forget the last two numbers of your PSI, its immaterial (ie everything is assumed in 100's). Just do the first two numbers. Zero is the standard O with the hand. Unless you're a Buckeye, then you know how the O should be done!:wink:
 
Some classes do go over that kind of stuff. I start OW classes same as I do my Intro to Tech, with a look at why divers die doing this. Then go into what we are going to do to minimize that risk.
 

Back
Top Bottom