How those idiots (us) run out of air

[billt4sf]

Incidentally, its unfortunate that there are no instructors that teach:
- how to properly plan a dive (including calculating min. gas)
- how to put up an SMB and have a dive group ascend on that line
- how to execute an air share, put up an SMB and ascend on that line
- how to keep the dive group together during the course of a normal dive as well as part of an expedited ascent

If there was a class like this, I imagine many divers would benefit greatly from it.

That's the class I am looking for! Add basic navigation.

Bill

---------- Post added July 4th, 2013 at 02:02 PM ----------

Bill, the reliance on a visual aid is what's holding you back. As to steps to master it, here's what I suggest.

- Find a site where you can practice ascents from 20 feet ... preferably a place where shore is easily accessible and there's little current to deal with.

- Shoot a bag and tie it off to something on the bottom ... or, if you have one, just plant a buoy. Then swim just far enough away from it so you can't see the line.

- Ascend ... watching your gauge, and counting off one-one thousand, two-one thousand for every foot of depth as you ascend.

- When you surface, note where you are relative to the SMB ... then swim back to it, descend, and repeat.

At first, just pay attention to your depth gauge ... it's the visual reference you've been relying on. After a few attempts, you'll begin to notice the pressure changes in your air spaces ... ears and drysuit (if you're wearing one) specifically ... will tell you as much about your ascent rate as anything you're looking at.

Learn to worry less about getting blown offline ... that's way less of a concern than you're making it out to be. All it means is that you might have to work a bit surface swimming back to where you need to be. On a live boat pickup, it should be no concern at all ... particularly if you ascend using an SMB. The boat will come get you, regardless of where the current takes you. Far more important that you don't run yourself low on ... or out of ... air trying to get back to a stationary place. Having an adequate source of air to breathe is ... always ... the priority.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I read thru most of the rest of the comments and I like these ideas the best. Thanks, Bob!

I am nervous about shooting a bag the first few times without someone teaching us.

Bill

 

[danvolker]

That's the class I am looking for! Add basic navigation.

Bill

---------- Post added July 4th, 2013 at 02:02 PM ----------



I read thru most of the rest of the comments and I like these ideas the best. Thanks, Bob!

I am nervous about shooting a bag the first few times without someone teaching us.

Bill

Bill, shooting a bag is not going to get you safely to the surface...it is a way for the boat you came on to "track" where you are doing your stop....

What you really need is an instructor to work with you on the vertical ascents from 60 feet, straight up to the surface, no lines, no smb.

Worry about the SMB when you have been diving long enough to lead a group yourself.

 

[flots am]

What would you call such a miracle course? Would it enable its graduates to Explore the Globe Underwater? Would we call it EGU, for short?

I call it "Open Water Diver," although shooting the bag comes in either "wreck" or "deep." Shooting a bag during an air share isn't covered because of the level of Darwin's-balls-kicking required to get to that point on an OW dive.

The first priority is "Don't run out of air!" If they can get that part nailed, the other parts become less urgent.

Oddly enough, with all this talk of ascending up a line, I never even saw an up-line until I went wreck diving on a popular site that had a mooring block. I remember thinking, "wow, that makes it really easy and feel like cheating!" but until that point, I has never seen one and though all ascents were free.

flots

 

[Ben_ca]

Also deploying an SMB takes time. Experienced divers can deploy pretty fast but it takes practice. Remember the clock is ticking. If you are already in an airshare situation with your buddy... how long will it be before the both of you suck that tank dry? Often new divers dive with other new divers from their class. They probably have the same SAC rates and if they weren't aware of their gas management could go OOA/Air Share/then OOA again in s short amount of time.

Here's a video to show how long it can take when someone F's up an SMB deploy.

 

[flots am]

Bill, shooting a bag is not going to get you safely to the surface...it is a way for the boat you came on to "track" where you are doing your stop....

What you really need is an instructor to work with you on the vertical ascents from 60 feet, straight up to the surface, no lines, no smb.

Worry about the SMB when you have been diving long enough to lead a group yourself.

The other thing to mention is that shooting a bag and doing it wrong (like getting tangled in the line when it's flying) can be fatal. Unless you happen to be really deep or in a high current area, where you could be out of visual range by the time you surface, it's safer to do the air share to the surface, then when everybody is happily breathing, inflate the bag.

A big SMB can easily have 60-75lbs of lift, which will become a real problem, really fast if it catches anybody.

You don't want to use a bag just to make it easier to find the bodies . . .

flots.

 

[Hepcat62]

Here's a video to show how long it can take when someone F's up an SMB deploy.

You mean your preferred method of line stowage isn't "loosely collected bundle of knots"? Man, I've been doing it wrong...

Just in case anybody's unfamiliar with this skill/equipment, here's a video that shows a slightly more polished deploy...

[video=youtube;jtpoGCzVWZs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtpoGCzVWZs[/video]

 

[billt4sf]

Bill, the reliance on a visual aid is what's holding you back. As to steps to master it, here's what I suggest.

- Find a site where you can practice ascents from 20 feet ... preferably a place where shore is easily accessible and there's little current to deal with.

- Shoot a bag and tie it off to something on the bottom ... or, if you have one, just plant a buoy. Then swim just far enough away from it so you can't see the line.

- Ascend ... watching your gauge, and counting off one-one thousand, two-one thousand for every foot of depth as you ascend.

- When you surface, note where you are relative to the SMB ... then swim back to it, descend, and repeat.

At first, just pay attention to your depth gauge ... it's the visual reference you've been relying on. After a few attempts, you'll begin to notice the pressure changes in your air spaces ... ears and drysuit (if you're wearing one) specifically ... will tell you as much about your ascent rate as anything you're looking at.

Learn to worry less about getting blown offline ... that's way less of a concern than you're making it out to be. All it means is that you might have to work a bit surface swimming back to where you need to be. On a live boat pickup, it should be no concern at all ... particularly if you ascend using an SMB. The boat will come get you, regardless of where the current takes you. Far more important that you don't run yourself low on ... or out of ... air trying to get back to a stationary place. Having an adequate source of air to breathe is ... always ... the priority.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Back to my question: what's the best way to learn open water ascents?

Bill

 

[danvolker]

Back to my question: what's the best way to learn open water ascents?

Bill

A Dive vacation in Palm Beach, Fl ... Drift Diving capitol of the world, and the best place to learn drift diving and free ascents

But seriously....any good instructor can do an ocean dive with you and fix this issue, probably not far from where you live.
Do you think you know a good instructor in your area? Would you like some suggestions/referrals from SB members that know someone near you?

 

[beanojones]

Back to my question: what's the best way to learn open water ascents?

What's the sticking point for you?

Think about what you see the problem, and then click the spoiler button.

Spoiler

This sticking point is that you are thinking about diving instead of just diving. Good drivers use don't use their front brain to drive, and neither do good (=relaxed) divers. Part of it cannot be helped, because new diver. But another part of it is spending too much time thinking about diving instead of doing diving.

So how do you stop having to front brain process everything? By stopping having to take care of stuff in the water.

Here's something to do before every dive. Put your mask on. Put your reg in your mouth. Breath slowly and deeply for a several minutes before you even stand up to get in the water. Boat or shore diving, it does not matter. Get your breathing rate nice and slow, and then get in the water.

Once you are in the water, go diving. Don't stop and talk. Don't switch to your snorkel, don't play with your gear. Get all that done gear fiddling before you get in the water. Once you are in the water go diving. The Ocean is doing its best to mess you. So don't ever be on the surface, or underwater with your reg out or your mask off. Ever. Once you are standing on dry land, or on the boat deck, it's OK to take them off.

The Ocean loves people who think that the surface is somehow safer than underwater, because it can play funny games with them. Send them flying away on current, splash water in their mouth, toss their mask to the bottom of the Ocean., Submerge and the Ocean will delight you with stuff. Try and cheat on her by looking at stuff on the surface, and she will mess you with. Hell hath no fury, and all that. When you ignore the Ocean, she will hassle you to pay attention to her.

The Ocean also encourages the gods of gear to throw torn mouthpieces etc at people who don't put their gear on and get set before they get in the water. Once you start a diving flustered then you front brain it all the way through. Once you start front braining ascents, you try to do stuff. ANd all that happens is you start kicking to get there.

Once you start trying to do stuff underwater, it gets harder. Diving is tricky in that the harder you try, the more you front brain it, and the harder it gets. Also the harder you try the faster you breath, and nothing messes with diving like breathing hard and fast.

Also if you don't have a dive computer, get one, and stop dealing with all that nonsense too.

 

[Adobo]

Back to my question: what's the best way to learn open water ascents?

Bill

Bill,

My 2 cents.. this blue water ascent thing is not the first nut you need to crack. Your dive fell apart long before you were signaling to the dive master that you were low on gas. If a friend of mine who is new to diving came to me and asked me what to work on right out of the gate, I would say, dive planning. That includes but is not limited to:

• knowing how to pick out dives that are appropriate for your skill/experience level. As an example, getting out on a boat dive to 100ft when you haven't figured out gas planning, you haven't figured out how to do blue water ascents, you haven't sorted out your buoyancy... might not be a good idea. Start with shallow shore dives.
• knowing how to plan your gas. In other words, know how much gas you need to
  • sort out an emergency (such as donating a reg to an out of gas buddy)
  • prepare your self for ascent (put away whatever gear is in the way such as cameras and lights)
  • ascend from depth all the way to the surface

Remember that whatever amount of gas you need to do all of that for one diver, you need that times 2 as presumably you need to get you *and* your buddy to the surface​

• knowing how to talk to your dive team. That includes dive masters that will be diving with you. (One thing I like to do when vacation diving is asking the dive master to show me how he/she does hand signals.)
• knowing what the real hazards are for a dive. As an example, in the dive you described in this thread, you were concerned about ascending in current whereas the real hazard was running out of gas. There are dives where you have to be really careful about where you ascend. As an example, there are dives in Monterey where you can inadvertently ascend too close to wash rocks. In those cases, you want to make every effort to be at an appropriate location when it is time to ascend.

In addition to dive planning, keeping together with your dive buddy is of primary importance.

All those things for me come before learning how to do blue water ascents without visual references. In my view, you have not improved your situation if all you do is train in blue water ascents but have no clue as to how much gas is needed to get you and an out of gas buddy to the surface or if you have no clue how to identify and avoid dives that put you way in over your head. The key here for me is to avoid the emergency in the first place.

But again, this is just my 2 cents.

To answer your question about how to learn ascents, the breakwater and pt lobos have plenty of kelp that go from say 30ft all the way to the surface. No need to shoot a bag if you want to use something as a visual reference. Once you figure out how to do a 20ft stop and then a 10ft stop while staying with your buddy, you can practice the same thing relying only on your buddy and your computer (as in, don't look at the kelp at all).

Or, better yet, you can have a pro show you all of this stuff including dive planning, underwater communications, keeping your team together, donating to out of gas divers, etc. To do so:

1. Go to Welcome | Global Underwater Explorers
2. On the navigation menu, click on Education, then Diver Training, then GUE instructors
3. email one of the instructors in your area and arrange for a class
4. take the class
5. profit

If GUE is not your thing, try www.unifiedteamdiving.com.