How Soon Before Everyone is Using a Rebreather?
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Amigos,
First, my single post wasn't meant to "diss" rebreathers, those using them, etc. I, too, have LOTS of friends here in the land locked but Great Lakes wreck diving midwest using them.
Where the S. FLA contingent is I'm sure many divers in your group are trying and learning how to use them efficiently in set up and hopefully diving them safely.
The question by the OP was how soon before RBs become MAINSTREAM..........And I think we'll see fuel cell autos LONG before we see RBs replace scuba tanks on the majority of worldwide recreational dive resorts and boats. As much as we love diving it still is a low number participation sport compared to skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, tennis, golf, etc.
I hear you on the expenses, too. Those who can afford it don't care what it costs now. I just don't believe it will ever get as simple as mounting a regulator on a tank valve or as cheap is all I was saying.
Plus the other main factor, the people one......Travel to any destination in the world and watch the average vacationing diver hook up and dive. Kinda' scary sometimes.....90% of those I see using NITROX don't even know what the heck they're doing measuring their mix!
Several of my S. FLA friends are always bugging me to try one. And I may in 2008! Right now I also do contend they're bulky and certainly not streamlined.....So getting close to critters is something as a photographer I'd debate. Hell, I think the Sharkwater movie guy shot a lot of stuff FREE DIVING!
Howard Hall, Bob Cranston and others DO get to STAY down a long time with their RBs which can be advantageous, but again, for most people just going diving more often no matter what the bottom time is will produce critter encounters.....It has for me.....
Maybe in 2008 if I do the lowly little Draeger class in West Palm I'll eat my words. If so, then maybe I'll be joining my buddy Ryan and others on your 3 hours drift dives
YMMV
dhaas
First, my single post wasn't meant to "diss" rebreathers, those using them, etc. I, too, have LOTS of friends here in the land locked but Great Lakes wreck diving midwest using them.
Where the S. FLA contingent is I'm sure many divers in your group are trying and learning how to use them efficiently in set up and hopefully diving them safely.
The question by the OP was how soon before RBs become MAINSTREAM..........And I think we'll see fuel cell autos LONG before we see RBs replace scuba tanks on the majority of worldwide recreational dive resorts and boats. As much as we love diving it still is a low number participation sport compared to skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, tennis, golf, etc.
I hear you on the expenses, too. Those who can afford it don't care what it costs now. I just don't believe it will ever get as simple as mounting a regulator on a tank valve or as cheap is all I was saying.
Plus the other main factor, the people one......Travel to any destination in the world and watch the average vacationing diver hook up and dive. Kinda' scary sometimes.....90% of those I see using NITROX don't even know what the heck they're doing measuring their mix!
Several of my S. FLA friends are always bugging me to try one. And I may in 2008! Right now I also do contend they're bulky and certainly not streamlined.....So getting close to critters is something as a photographer I'd debate. Hell, I think the Sharkwater movie guy shot a lot of stuff FREE DIVING!
Howard Hall, Bob Cranston and others DO get to STAY down a long time with their RBs which can be advantageous, but again, for most people just going diving more often no matter what the bottom time is will produce critter encounters.....It has for me.....
Maybe in 2008 if I do the lowly little Draeger class in West Palm I'll eat my words. If so, then maybe I'll be joining my buddy Ryan and others on your 3 hours drift dives
YMMV
dhaas
No, but Doug is another diver from our group.
Life-Is-Good-Diver
Contributor
Wow, I read the whole 7 pages, and did the tone of the thread changed once a few people jumped in, and threw out facts on rebreathers.
I'm back on a rebreather, after investing over 7k into my DSLR camera set up, It was a easy choice for me to go back to a RB, and take shots of the fish in their natural enviorment.
Everywhere you turn, you see more and more people on rebreathers, caves, wrecks, photographers, etc, but do i think it will take the whole market over, of course not, cost being a major factor, and it will take alittle more time for them to be accepted I think.
Do I think the " techie " side will get more envolved , sure I do, I see more and more rebreathers now then ever doing that type of diving.
I give alot of credit to rebreather world also, as it really is a great fourm for everyone to learn, understand, ask questions, and possibley venture into making a descion in choosing a rebreather.
Sure, I can take great photos without a rebreather, and many people do. But now I get down their and its so quit, all the fish stay in their natural enviorment, they come so close, they all most hit your mask, best of all , they interact with you, rather then run from you.
Back to the orignal post, no I dont belive anytime soon rebreathers will take over the market.
I do belive they will become more common in the next few years with the techie crowd, and some will venture over, and some will stay with what they been diving for years. Theres nothing wrong with either one, O/C or a rebreather, because the fact is, you can die on either, and people do, its just somthing we have to accept, as we have to remember, we wern't born with gills !
I'm back on a rebreather, after investing over 7k into my DSLR camera set up, It was a easy choice for me to go back to a RB, and take shots of the fish in their natural enviorment.
Everywhere you turn, you see more and more people on rebreathers, caves, wrecks, photographers, etc, but do i think it will take the whole market over, of course not, cost being a major factor, and it will take alittle more time for them to be accepted I think.
Do I think the " techie " side will get more envolved , sure I do, I see more and more rebreathers now then ever doing that type of diving.
I give alot of credit to rebreather world also, as it really is a great fourm for everyone to learn, understand, ask questions, and possibley venture into making a descion in choosing a rebreather.
Sure, I can take great photos without a rebreather, and many people do. But now I get down their and its so quit, all the fish stay in their natural enviorment, they come so close, they all most hit your mask, best of all , they interact with you, rather then run from you.
Back to the orignal post, no I dont belive anytime soon rebreathers will take over the market.
I do belive they will become more common in the next few years with the techie crowd, and some will venture over, and some will stay with what they been diving for years. Theres nothing wrong with either one, O/C or a rebreather, because the fact is, you can die on either, and people do, its just somthing we have to accept, as we have to remember, we wern't born with gills !
OP---How Soon Before Everyone is Using a Rebreather?
Have no clue....when?
Have no clue....when?
We should resurrect this thread in 20, 30 or even 50 years and see where it is. We look back now at things divers did 40 years ago, and think - man those guys are nuts. Diving with a wing? These guys were using milk jugs for buyancy and using fire extinguisher bottles for air (yes air) supply and doing cave dives, and deep wreck dives. I mean just 15 years ago, it was widespread belief you'd kill yourself diving nitrox.
Think about it, in my earlier post, I said 40 years ago, it was though that no citizen would ever on a computer. Remember those commercials motorola used to run in the 90's? The ones that said "Ever check you email from the beach? You will." We though then that was far-out. Think back 20 years - wwe are doing things today you never would have dreamed of back then. Think about what is on our horizon if we dont kill ourselves first.
The fact is technology is growing. There will be improvements in CO2 absorbent, CO2 monitoring, O2 monitoring, loop design and function, and reliability. You might need to just don the thing and get in the water.
OC is wasteful, So in 50 years? Everyone just might be using a rebreather.
Think about it, in my earlier post, I said 40 years ago, it was though that no citizen would ever on a computer. Remember those commercials motorola used to run in the 90's? The ones that said "Ever check you email from the beach? You will." We though then that was far-out. Think back 20 years - wwe are doing things today you never would have dreamed of back then. Think about what is on our horizon if we dont kill ourselves first.
The fact is technology is growing. There will be improvements in CO2 absorbent, CO2 monitoring, O2 monitoring, loop design and function, and reliability. You might need to just don the thing and get in the water.
OC is wasteful, So in 50 years? Everyone just might be using a rebreather.
One of the things that has struck me, over the last two and a half years, is how complicated the equipment is that you need to go scuba diving. On any given dive, your pre-dive check may discover something not hooked up properly, or not working right. During the dive, I've had leaks, auto-inflation, freeflows, lights fail . . . The thing about rebreathers, for me, is that they introduce a bunch of NEW possible problems. It's very clear, from reading about them, that you have to be quite meticulous and careful about assembly and preparation, and about pre-dive checks. And then there is the issue of bailout, which really negates a lot of the weight advantage for me, in comparison with the small doubles I dive. And bailout issues get worse when the dives get technical.
Every time I read about rebreathers, I come back to the GUE approach, which is to do the dives you can on OC, and turn to a rebreather when the dive you want to do is simply no longer practical without the time extension available from rebreathing. Since no dive I will ever do comes anywhere near meeting that criterion, it's highly unlikely that I'll ever switch.
Every time I read about rebreathers, I come back to the GUE approach, which is to do the dives you can on OC, and turn to a rebreather when the dive you want to do is simply no longer practical without the time extension available from rebreathing. Since no dive I will ever do comes anywhere near meeting that criterion, it's highly unlikely that I'll ever switch.
caveseeker7
Contributor
There is nothing wrong with the GUE approach, actually, there is quite some for it.
But aside from deep technical diving, where not everyone has sponsors, very deep pockets, and a great following willing to haul your gear to the site, there are those of us that just enjoy diving rebreathers. Me among them. I never had a single good reason to dive in the first place, other than making a childhood dream come true and enjoying it. Nor do I have any particular reason for diving a rebreather, other than enjoying it considerably more then OC (and making that childhood dream come true - turned out Hass and his wife were on rebrathers as the Aqualung hadn't been invented yet).
As for the timeline, I believe it'll be sooner than 50, 40 or 30 years that rebreathers will be common place. Aqualung has been building rebreathers for years for the military, Oceanic wanted to get into it 10 years ago, and just bought the rights to the PRISM from Steam Machines. Poseidon teamed up with Cis-Lunar. As with anything else, once the big companies smell profits, they'll want part of it. That'll lead to investments badly needed in this sector of the market, it will bring new technology and most likely more safety. The innovations of Bill Stone and his design team, combined with the engineering expertise of Poseidon is but a hint of what's to come.
The CO2 sensing technology for rebreathers is available, has been for a few years, once a high volume manufacturer is willing to pay for it the unit cost will come to a reasonable level.
The two main reasons that people seem to list here are expense and safety.
The price is in numbers, at least half the units out there are made from machined parts and hand assembled. The rest are made from molded parts and hand assembled, but still in fairly limited numbers, making offsetting the molds rather expensive. Imagine your masks being completely made by hand ... or look at the price of Force Fins. Low volume, handcrafted items cost money.
Safety is and will continue improving. Higher quality control, more thorough testing, new and improved technology. The eCCR is just 40 years old, and has been a niche market. Think were cars were in the 40s ... in the 70s ... and where they are today. It's still early on for eCCRs, the first volume model (call it the Ford Model T of rebreathers, available in any color as long as it's yellow
) is just 10 years old this year. Technology is moving faster these days, and with bigger money there'll be bigger advancements.
The Poseidon Cis-Lunar MK6 Discovery is an incredibly gutsy project, if it succeeds it will be a big advancement towards user friendliness and safety. If they can keep the price down, even a step towards affordability.
But aside from deep technical diving, where not everyone has sponsors, very deep pockets, and a great following willing to haul your gear to the site, there are those of us that just enjoy diving rebreathers. Me among them. I never had a single good reason to dive in the first place, other than making a childhood dream come true and enjoying it. Nor do I have any particular reason for diving a rebreather, other than enjoying it considerably more then OC (and making that childhood dream come true - turned out Hass and his wife were on rebrathers as the Aqualung hadn't been invented yet).
As for the timeline, I believe it'll be sooner than 50, 40 or 30 years that rebreathers will be common place. Aqualung has been building rebreathers for years for the military, Oceanic wanted to get into it 10 years ago, and just bought the rights to the PRISM from Steam Machines. Poseidon teamed up with Cis-Lunar. As with anything else, once the big companies smell profits, they'll want part of it. That'll lead to investments badly needed in this sector of the market, it will bring new technology and most likely more safety. The innovations of Bill Stone and his design team, combined with the engineering expertise of Poseidon is but a hint of what's to come.
The CO2 sensing technology for rebreathers is available, has been for a few years, once a high volume manufacturer is willing to pay for it the unit cost will come to a reasonable level.
The two main reasons that people seem to list here are expense and safety.
The price is in numbers, at least half the units out there are made from machined parts and hand assembled. The rest are made from molded parts and hand assembled, but still in fairly limited numbers, making offsetting the molds rather expensive. Imagine your masks being completely made by hand ... or look at the price of Force Fins. Low volume, handcrafted items cost money.
Safety is and will continue improving. Higher quality control, more thorough testing, new and improved technology. The eCCR is just 40 years old, and has been a niche market. Think were cars were in the 40s ... in the 70s ... and where they are today. It's still early on for eCCRs, the first volume model (call it the Ford Model T of rebreathers, available in any color as long as it's yellow
) is just 10 years old this year. Technology is moving faster these days, and with bigger money there'll be bigger advancements.The Poseidon Cis-Lunar MK6 Discovery is an incredibly gutsy project, if it succeeds it will be a big advancement towards user friendliness and safety. If they can keep the price down, even a step towards affordability.
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