How often does a regulator NEED to be serviced?

[Couv]

I understand that a well used regulator should be serviced yearly. I also understand that it needs to be done to keep the warranty in effect. But what if you buy a used regulator (warranty now void) have it serviced and then use it two or three times a year. Is it really going to require yearly servicing in this case?

Great advice from the usual suspects, I'll just add:

Next time you have the urge to squander your diving dollar having your regulator serviced, consider investing in one or both of the service manuals usually discussed here. Vance Harlow's (Oxyhacker on Scuba Board and else ware) "SCUBA Regulator Maintenance Repair." http://www.airspeedpress.com/newregbook.html and the Scuba Tools book, "Regulator Savvy" http://www.scubatools.com/

In the meantime, here is my usual cut and paste re regulator inspection and service frequency.

If you are determined to keep the useless and expensive warranty intact, you must follow the manufactures suggested service interval. However, even if keeping the useless and expensive warranty intact is not an issue, learning to check your equipment yourself is very important and will help YOU determine if your equipment needs service. The following checks should be done even if there has been a fresh service done by a reputable repair shop and of course before any dive trip.​

Regulator inspection:

There are a few checks that everyone is capable of doing. One is the intermediate pressure check . Get a scuba regulator intermediate pressure gauge : Intermediate Pressure Gauge Plugs Into The BCD Quick Disconnect Hose from LeisurePro.com

Find out the what the IP range should be for your regulator (most are ~ 135 +/- 10 psi .)

The intermediate pressure should remain steady after stabilizing within the acceptable range. If it tends to climb (creep) that indicates there is a problem with the first stage that must be corrected.

Another check is the cracking pressure of each second stage. Partially fill your kitchen sink and immerse the regulator with the mouth piece up. Air should begin to flow before the diaphragm gets more than a 1 1/2 of inches deep. You may have to put plastic tubing in place of the mouth piece to do this, but usually not. If you want to get fancy (there is no reason to get fancy) make a simple manometer from plastic tubing and a yard stick * » * » Manometer
and you can check the cracking pressure with a good deal of accuracy. If you want to get REAL fancy, buy a Magnehelic gage from eBay, but again no reason to do that.

Next, a water tight check is also very easy to perform and checks the integrity of the second stage housing. Hook
the first stage up to a tank and without turning on the air (or if you have a good tight dust cap you can use that instead) draw a breath on the second stage until you hear the diaphragm retract. Do not draw too hard as it will collapse the exhaust valves and cause a leak. Does the regulator hold vacuum? If so, it is probably water tight.

These simple checks can be done by anyone. They should be done prior to any dive trip, not to mention when new out of the box or after shop service.

Check early, check often.

couv

 

[mwilding]

Thank you all for making this a very informative thread. While I don't have any plans to run out and buy a Magnehelic gauge, I will buy an IP gauge right quick.

 

[beanojones]

Thank you all for making this a very informative thread. While I don't have any plans to run out and buy a Magnehelic gauge, I will buy an IP gauge right quick.

Be aware that if you use a IP gauge that is connected to your inflator hose, it will not react as fast as one that is inline. You can get a good handle on what your IP pressure is, but troubleshooting stuff works best with an inline IP gauge. With piston first stages that is not as much of a problem, but with Diaphragm first stages I would not want to be without one.

Found the right tool for the job
https://www.scubatools.com/c-15-scuba-tools-custom.aspx
The dual drive tool, and the gauge for it.

 

[redacted]

Thank you all for making this a very informative thread. While I don't have any plans to run out and buy a Magnehelic gauge, I will buy an IP gauge right quick.

The poor man's Magnehelic gauge is a sink full of water. It will put you in the ballpark which is good enough for DIY.

 

[redacted]

Be aware that if you use a IP gauge that is connected to your inflator hose, it will not react as fast as one that is inline. You can get a good handle on what your IP pressure is, but troubleshooting stuff works best with an inline IP gauge. With piston first stages that is not as much of a problem, but with Diaphragm first stages I would not want to be without one.

Found the right tool for the job
https://www.scubatools.com/c-15-scuba-tools-custom.aspx
The dual drive tool, and the gauge for it.

So what difference does it really make, practically speaking? Lock-up pressure will be the same. Needle movement may be a little delayed but is it even perceptible. And what difference does it make if the 10 creep takes 5.0 seconds vs 5.5 second? We are talking 20+ extra inches of hose and pretty high flow rates. I would think that lengths of 2nd stage hoses would create an even larger but equally insignificant variable on interpreting IP gauge responses.

 

[Luis H]

Be aware that if you use a IP gauge that is connected to your inflator hose, it will not react as fast as one that is inline. You can get a good handle on what your IP pressure is, but troubleshooting stuff works best with an inline IP gauge. With piston first stages that is not as much of a problem, but with Diaphragm first stages I would not want to be without one.

Found the right tool for the job
https://www.scubatools.com/c-15-scuba-tools-custom.aspx
The dual drive tool, and the gauge for it.

I have never notice any noticeable difference from where you pick up the IP measurement and I have been trying to check the time response of the IP during the breathing cycle. I started doing regulator service 37 years ago for a dive shop, but now I just do it for fun (I also do modifications and redesigns…just for fun).

When I redesigned the Phoenix RAM first stage, I changed the gas flow path some and it seems to have improved the IP recovery time, but I don’t have the time dependent instrumentation to measure it…just gauges and observation.

Here are pictures of me testing the IP at different points of the low pressure system during the early development of the Phoenix first stage for the RAM (notice several IP gauges, I also have other in line gauges that are not shown in the picture). It is fairly crude/ primitive instrumentation, but on the bottom line results have been positive. This is not rocket science.

Great advice from the usual suspects, I'll just add:

Next time you have the urge to squander your diving dollar having your regulator serviced, consider investing in one or both of the service manuals usually discussed here. Vance Harlow's (Oxyhacker on Scuba Board and else ware) "SCUBA Regulator Maintenance Repair." http://www.airspeedpress.com/newregbook.html and the Scuba Tools book, "Regulator Savvy" http://www.scubatools.com/


Check early, check often.

couv

That is very good advice. Just a little knowledge can make a huge difference on how you maintain, clean, inspect, test, and the decisions you make about servicing a regulator (or even what regulator you want to own).

A bit of knowledge of how a regulator works will show how simple they are and give a better idea of what maintenance they may need and how they could fail.

If you notice the people posting in favor of reducing un-necessary service are also the same divers that do their own regulator service and understand the inner workings of their regulators.

From my observation, most regulator technicians that promote yearly service are also in the business and their motivation is probably due to liability (more than any individual profit, IMO). IMO, they feel that they need to follow the industry standard to protect themselves from liability.

I agree completely, snd in my experience a great deal of these excellent reg techs didn't get that way because they attended a reg clinic. I'm with Luis, Mattboy, et al. in the belief that there is no reason to fix something that isn't broke.

Now, having said that, here is a question for you guys that I've been pondering lately. On my used regs I service them when they need it, but on my doubles regs which were purchased new last December, I get free parts for life blah blah blah. The engineer in me is telling me not to screw with something that works fine, but on the other hand, the idea of having fresh soft parts in it every year at no costs seems appealing as well. Any thoughts?

Jim

It may seem great to have new seals and seats, but do you really gain anything by disturbing something that is working.

Elastomers (rubbers in O-rings, seats, etc.) do deteriorate with time, but mostly if they are exposed to extreme temperatures and harsh environments with chemical, etc. The rubber in a Scuba regulator is exposed to a very nice environment with very clean breathing gas and fairly clean water (nothing like an industrial environment).

I am sure you are very careful when you service a regulator and you use all the proper tool (such as soft brass O-ring picks), but every time anyone opens a piece of equipment you add a small chance of making a mistake and scratching or screwing up something.

This is why I feel that it is very important to learn how to diagnose something with minimal invasiveness, learn how to inspect for signs of corrosion, and learn how to predict actual life span of time dependant parts (as in rubber O-rings and seals, not springs, properly design and used springs should not change with time).

Added:
LP Seats, O-rings and (to a lesser extent) HP seats need to be replace in a regular schedule, but IMHO yearly is way too frequent. The exact time will vary with the regulator and the actual amount of use. I would guess that closer to 3 to 5 years could be average to a careful diver, but in the case of some of my double hose regulators they can probably go longer…unless I get bored…that ain’t going to happen.

For a single hose regulator, I particularly like pneumatically balanced adjustable second stages because the user can easily extend their time between service by many years (due to light spring pressure and the externally adjustable spring pressure).

 

[redacted]

Well I'll have to double check with my shop owner, but I understand that they have to purchase the kits, then send back the old parts and get a credit, so I either use them or I dont bother with the service until they need it, which is how I'm leaning right now.

Does the shop have a trash can? I'd bet you can find all the used parts you need in there.

 

[beanojones]

So what difference does it really make, practically speaking? Lock-up pressure will be the same. Needle movement may be a little delayed but is it even perceptible. And what difference does it make if the 10 creep takes 5.0 seconds vs 5.5 second? We are talking 20+ extra inches of hose and pretty high flow rates. I would think that lengths of 2nd stage hoses would create an even larger but equally insignificant variable on interpreting IP gauge responses.

It is not a question of where the gauge is, it is a question of the restricted flow through tire core valve in the inflator hose. It just does not allow enough flow to watch what the first stage is doing through an inhalation cycle.

Of course if you de-core the inflator hose (or if it is an Air2 hose or the like), then there is no difference.

 

[Luis H]

It is not a question of where the gauge is, it is a question of the restricted flow through tire core valve in the inflator hose. It just does not allow enough flow to watch what the first stage is doing through an inhalation cycle.

Of course if you de-core the inflator hose (or if it is an Air2 hose or the like), then there is no difference.

You may want to read my post above and take a look at the pictures.

I have never measured any difference.

One gauge in that system is in a QD inflator hose, the other one is not (it is attached directly to an LP hose). I also have two types of second stage adjustment in line gauges…I have never notice any difference, but will check a lot more carefully the next time.

Your results may vary…

 

[beanojones]

You may want to read my post above and take a look at the pictures.

I have never measured any difference.

One gauge in that system is in a QD inflator hose, the other one is not (it is attached directly to an LP hose). I also have two types of second stage adjustment in line gauges…I have never notice any difference, but will check a lot more carefully the next time.

Your results may vary…

I am only relating my experiences. I much prefer a gauge that is not restricted by the valve core in the inflator hose. When tracking down weird stuff with regs I always found that more reliable. But that was in a shop with the magnehelic and all that too, so I was just availing myself of what was available, maybe.

If I am working on regs, I am going to want an inline adjuster. And since he can buy an IP gauge that works with the in-line gauge for the same price or even cheaper as a inflator hose gauge, he might as well buy that. Of course if money s no object, he should get both.