How much does dive count tell you?

[TSandM]

Dive counts on the internet don't mean much, if anything. Some of us are honest, but there's no requirement to be. If you are trying to assess the value of information you get from someone here, it helps to have SOME background information from elsewhere, and also to look at consensus (if a bunch of people agree, it makes it somewhat more likely that the information is valuable, although it is possible to run into a posse of zealots on any given subject). Logic is also persuasive, and people should be able to answer questions about their posts clearly and without becoming defensive.

Of course, the best answer is to go to the Rubicon papers and see what THEY say, but that's not nearly as much fun as participating in discussions here.

As far as dive count in real life, I just figure anybody below 100 dives is somebody I'd better keep an eye on (more as the count gets lower) and keep the dive fairly easy. Above that, I relax a little bit, but still keep our first dive together less challenging, until I have a handle on the person.

 

[NudeDiver]

As far as dive count in real life, I just figure anybody below 100 dives is somebody I'd better keep an eye on (more as the count gets lower) and keep the dive fairly easy. Above that, I relax a little bit, but still keep our first dive together less challenging, until I have a handle on the person.

But isn't it ironic (or convenient) that the "magic number" is 100 - and not, oh, 99, or 101? Or is it more likely that the modern human mind simply likes round, even numbers and that they have psychological importance? That perhaps, the fairly nice looking threshold of "50" seems too low (for many people), and we just can't seem to settle on a number like "87" as a threshold - instead, preferring a more perfect number, like 100?

I'm not calling TSandM out or anything - I'm just saying, 100 is a purely arbitrary value, and it seems a lot nicer than other purely arbitrary values we could pick for this purpose.

 

[ZzzKing]

...although it is possible to run into a posse of zealots on any given subject...

I hadn't really noticed.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

I had to read every post. Amazing, or amusing in some cases...

Example:
16 of us made a trip to Saba in June. We were of all skill levels, from solo divers and instructors to newer divers with 100-200 dives (Newer divers with 100-200 dives [100 dives in two years and 200 dives in 10 years])

Of our group, 15 keep active dive logs and have for all or most their dive careers. The one who didn't owned a boat cleaning business in the past.

We celebrated some interesting "numbers" for six of these divers

We celebrated dives #

100
200
300
400
700
2000

We all dive together on occasion. Those with more experience help and pass on tips to those of less experience. We might even work with one another underwater on the next dive if we see skills that could be mastered with a little help

We keep our dive logs updated with memories and most of us design and print our own log sheets. There have been times when we were out dining after a dive and pulled out log books to compare because there was an argument about what happened on which dive on which date on a dive that happened months ago, and who it was...

Our dive count is accurate, because our logs are accurate, because we like to remember what happened. It might be easier for someone who makes 10 dives a year to remember "where, when and what" But most of our group make 100+ dives per year. Things get muddled when some dives are with the group, some dives are made with a buddy and others are dived solo.

As far as dive time underwater, This year's bottom time hours exceeded the 128 dives I made (Nitr0x is your friend).
---

There are experienced divers I don't buddy with because our dive philosophies don't gel. It doesn't mean I don't respect them or their experience, just that we will both enjoy our dives more if we don't buddy together

There was something stated here earlier about someone with 20 years and 100 dives over someone newly certified with 20 dives and who would you rather dive with... Honestly, depending on the dive we're on...

both or neither

I don't mind keeping an eye on divers or acting as a guide in areas I have experience with. I DO mind keeping an eye on divers for more skilled dives!

The last thing I want is to babysit a newer or less experienced diver when diving a deep wreck! In most cases, I will have a camera in my hands. I refuse to take the safety of less experienced divers in that situation and will elect to dive solo first (and have). Let the DM take them by the hand and be their guide.

El and some others have posted additional questions to ask when qualifying dive buddies via dive count. I would also like to add that you definitely need to discuss the dive plan. If your dive philosophies don't gel, promenade and find another dance partner

 

[NudeDiver]

We celebrated dives #
100
200
300
400
700
2000

Why not instead, celebrate dive numbers 103, 204, 299, 406, 705 and 2010?

See my previous post.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Why not instead, celebrate dive numbers 103, 204, 299, 406, 705 and 2010?

See my previous post.

I did celebrate dives number 774 and 775. But, I preferred to call them our New Year's Eve midnight dive and the first dive of 2009 for me (We often celebrate other dive numbers, we just call them something else )

 

[thanksforallthefish]

Most people will form an opinion of a divers ability from number of dives, how long it has taken them to accumulate X number of dives or chatting about a dive plan.
This will at best give you the necessary information to make an "educated guess" as to their ability in the water, you can not determine from that how they will react to any crisis that may occur, or what their skills are like.

As stated by other posters you need to see them in the underwater environment.

I have a friend that dives very infrequently, has been certified for more than 25 years, that I would much rather dive with and rely on that some DM's and even Instructors I have dived with.

Like "number of dives", "pieces of paper" (certifications) can be extremely misleading

 

[NudeDiver]

Think about it in a different context - are you a good driver?

How many years have you been driving? Doesn't necessarily tell you anything really. You got your license at 16, and have had it for 30 years - but so what? Maybe you drove only very occasionally during your 30 years.

The same goes for how many years you have been diving. If you got certified 20 years ago and your last dive was 10 years ago, that's something I want to know.

How many miles have you driven? Ok - maybe getting better. Let's say you've driven 1 million miles. What does that tell anyone, other than, you've driven a lot of miles? Over what period of time? Again, this alone doesn't tell me much.

The same goes for your dive count. If you have 500 dives, but they have all been in perfect warm water and down to 20', then that is something I want to know.

How many CITY miles and HIGHWAY miles have you driven? OK - getting better still. Starting to learn SOMETHING about someone's driving environment.

Same for diving. I want to know if your diving experience is relevant to the conditions we are about to dive in.

WHERE have you driving? OK - better still. Learning more about their environment. Maybe we've learned all your driving has been on Christmas Island. This tells us that while you have a great deal of experience driving, you do not have much driving experience.

If you have not been diving around here, and are unfamiliar with the environment, I need to know.

WHEN have you driven? Has all of your driving been during the day? During nice sunny weather? This is important for me to know before I trust you to drive my vehicle up the ALCAN in the middle of winter (when it is dark, snowy and icy). If you have not been driving during wind, rain, snow, ice, hail and other conditions, I want to know about it.

Again - if you have only been diving in perfect conditions, and we're expecting a strong current and low viz, and it's a night dive and you have never done a night dive - well, that's important to know too.

What kinds of roads have you driven on? If you have only driven on city streets, I'm probably going to be weary of your driving on dirt and gravel roads, full of holes and washboard.

If you have only done diving off a boat, with a dive master, and had your gear configured and assembled for you, I'm going to want to know that before we go out in the middle of nowhere (local dive site) and do some shore diving.

WHAT have you been driving? If the only thing you've driven is a 1982 junker with more dents than a bad nose job, then I want to know about that before I have you drive my shiny new Jeep, motorcycle, high performance sports car, semi, tow truck or steamroller.

If you're used to diving with a wetsuit, or no suit at all, I'm going to need to know that before I go diving with you in drysuit conditions.

Anyway - I think you get the idea. Any one of these questions is not of much use in determining how good of a driver you may be. The same goes for "how many dives do you have? with respect to assessing diving ability.

 

[J.R.]

Why not instead, celebrate dive numbers 103, 204, 299, 406, 705 and 2010?

Personally I think we should use prime numbers...

I have two thoughts about "numbers"... numbers are data, not information. Information only occurs when data is put into a context. Give me the context for your numbers and I'll tell you what it means. Inherently "number of dives" is simply "number of dives"... as others have pointed out... they might be all pool dives... might be in the local 20 ft pond without a boat in sight... might be totally phony... Context is the only way of sifting meaning out of the fundimentally irrelevant.

Second... even if the number of dives were put into a context we're still left with the reality that every dive is, by the nature of the environment, unique. Just because you may have dove a spot a hundred times there is no guarantee that the 101st won't involve some wrinkle that you hadn't run into before... its the unanticipated that creates issues that can't be quantified by quantity.

Third (yea... I know I said "two"... but this is one of those *unanticipated* things...)... there's the interesting finding of DAN a while back that the most accident prone (statistically) groups are the very new... and the very experienced. Seems that too big a number can induce a certain laxity of focus that can approximate that of the new diver... wierd, eh?

 

[rawls]

Not really. It could just mean they got a brand new bag, because their last bag, having made it through 500 dives and 10 trips around the world was just worn out.

Maybe, but it is more likely the diver with a brand new bag has either begun diving fairly recently or doesn't do alot of diving.

In any event I never said it was the only way to determine experience, but it is one way.