How much does dive count tell you?

[Diver0001]

It gives you a rough idea of what to expect. Nothing more. If someone has 150 dives *usually* their bouyancy control is sorted. If someone has 15 dives, it's hit and miss. Comfort levels also *tend* to improve as time goes by and most people *tend* to have experienced a wider variety of conditions as time goes by.

There are other indicators too. If people dive actively they'll tend to have their own gear, they tend to have higher levels of qualification, they look more relaxed at the briefing etc etc.

Is there a real difference in the water between someone with 500 or 1500 dives? Probably marginal... Is there a real difference between 50 and 500... usually but not always.

R..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hey SBers!

I was reading a few posts here and there and people seem to take dive count serious around here. I mean how much can it really tell you. For all i can see, you cant judge a book by its cover.

A diver with 20 dives can be as good as one with 100 or more. The only reason is you would need more dives is for experience and seeing things go wrong and know how to avoid/fix them.

Some divers are just good and easily adapt and learn. Some OW divers have dove in varying vis from arms length to +30m, different currents and temperatures. However, why would be it safe to assume that a diver with 500 dives (where 400 of them are in the exact same site with similar conditions) has more experience.

Thought this would be an interesting discussion..

Lets see your thoughts

Depends on what you mean by "good" ... it's a very relative term. When I had 100 dives, I thought I was a pretty good diver. And by some standards I was. But not compared to the skills and knowledge I have today. And compared to some divers I know, I'm not very good even now.

Diving's both a physical and mental activity. The physical part is easy ... and for some folks it's a lot easier than for others. I've met ... and even trained ... divers who just "get it" right out of the gate when it comes to skills. But that's just the tools. How you apply those tools ... the "craft" of diving, as it were ... is the mental approach. We humans are not designed for underwater. We're "hard-wired" to respond in certain ways, as part of the evolution that's kept us viable as a species. Unfortunately, some of those hard-wired responses can be rather detrimental underwater ... and part of the "craft" of diving is re-wiring our responses in ways that are more suitable for the underwater environment. In many respects, the real value of bottom time is that it gives us the opportunity to make that mental adaptation.

The simple answer to your question is that number of dives isn't a very accurate way to gauge someone's skill level, because we're all different and we learn and adapt at different rates. But I think it's safe to say that, for the most part, someone with 2000 dives has developed a skill level, and the "craftsmanship" to use those skills, to a much higher level than someone with 200 dives ... and similarly the latter than someone with 20 dives.

But the only real way to know how well someone dives is to go diving with them ... because all that really counts is how comfortable you are in the water with each other, and you can only learn that in the water.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

Fish, if your diving with a group, and you get a buddy whom you ask "So how much dives do you have under your belt?" He replies, "20", whats your first impression, and why?

My impression of a fellow diver has little, if anything to do with their dive count. If I have to dive with an insta-buddy I'm getting my impression of their skills from other observations, such as:

1. Just talking to them.
2. Watching them set-up their equipment.
3. Going over the dive-plan with them.
4. Going over our individual equipment.
5. Doing the buddy check, to include hand signals.

If they're struggling to do any of these, like they can't figure-out where to put the LP hose or they don't even know the hand signal for "OK" when underwater, then I might be concerned. But, I'm not looking for my insta-buddy to be a highly skilled diver, just a safe one that can do the job of a buddy.

I hate to use a cliche, but actions speak louder than words. Like I said in my first post, real proof of skills can only be had after you've seen them dive.

 

[NudeDiver]

so nothing about their skills or experience?

OK, so I tell you nothing else other than "I have logged 50 dives". Please tell me the skills and experience that are going to ascribe to me, based on that comment - and explain how they apply to all people who have made 50 dives.

 

[farsidefan1]

2 thoughts spang to my mind. More dives = more comfortable in the water. Second thought is that the more experienced diver may blow off some buddy procedures and developed some bad habits. Still I prefer the more experienced diver as a buddy for exactly the reasons you mentioned. It is more likely they have seen and experienced challenges (successfully if they are still diving and breathing) than a diver with 20 dives. Yeah if the experienced diver has 400 out of 500 near identical dives that still counts for an awfully lot of "comfort" down there, and of course there's still that other 100 dives in different conditions.
Bottom line is of course, It depends on the individual, but those were my first thoughts.

 

[Diver0001]

so nothing about their skills or experience? They why would some people refuse to DM's with less dives than they have. Ive read some posts that claim that.

I was in Turkey a few years ago and you're forced to dive some sites with a guide. On the boat on the way out to the site the DM asked me about my experience level so I told him and he said... "I'll tell you what... why don't *I* dive with *you*" LOL We both had to laugh.

We made some great dives that day. They're still among my favorites that I made in Turkey. The DM might have felt intimidated to start with but he was a fine buddy and fun to dive with.

R..

 

[msg]

There is only a number associated with each dive, but for how long? 5 minutes, 10 minutes, or more than 30? The experience is what matters, not the number of times that you hit the water. Most of my dives are for 40 minutes or less, due to the classes that I assist with. Also they are in the same environment. I haven't had the opportunity to do a wide variety of environments, so my experience could be considered minimal, even though I have a lot of time in the water.

 

[mood]

OK, so I tell you nothing else other than "I have logged 50 dives". Please tell me the skills and experience that are going to ascribe to me, based on that comment - and explain how they apply to all people who have made 50 dives.

I probably wouldnt tell you much. If you lived through 50 dives means you must be doing something right. I just cant use the number to rate your experience. Rating and judgment would come after i dive with you.

Thats why i started this topic,to see what others think of logged dives.

2 thoughts spang to my mind. More dives = more comfortable in the water. Second thought is that the more experienced diver may blow off some buddy procedures and developed some bad habits. Still I prefer the more experienced diver as a buddy for exactly the reasons you mentioned. It is more likely they have seen and experienced challenges (successfully if they are still diving and breathing) than a diver with 20 dives. Yeah if the experienced diver has 400 out of 500 near identical dives that still counts for an awfully lot of "comfort" down there, and of course there's still that other 100 dives in different conditions.
Bottom line is of course, It depends on the individual, but those were my first thoughts.

Just for arguments sake, dont you think that "comfort" would reach maximum level. You just cant get anymore comfort, true that wont happen early, but it wont necessary take hundreds of dives to become very comfortable.

 

[rawls]

Alot of people will lie about how many dives they have anyway


Look at their dive bag and how much it looks like it has been used. It can tell you alot

 

[rstofer]

A diver with 20 dives can be as good as one with 100 or more.

No chance in the world! A diver with 100 or more dives is fairly serious about diving. I would venture to guess that there is a huge dropout between 20 and 100 dives. Perhaps there is an even higher dropout between 4 and 20. But anybody can make 20 dives. It takes a little dedication to make 100 or more. The 100+ diver is bound to have learned more than the 20 diver. If nothing else, he's had 5 times the opportunity to make mistakes.

Now, somewhere over 1000 dives it probably becomes moot. But a DM with 60 dives doesn't impress me at all. An instructor with 100 dives doesn't cut it either. My view: minimum 500 dives for DM and 1000 for instructor. There should also be some diversity of conditions required but that would be complicated to administer. If you want to teach, you should have 'been there and done that' everywhere.

Richard