How many people were in your OW classes?

[Ber Rabbit]

I looked again and it's 22/1 with 3 assistants in confined water for scuba training. The 10/1 does apply when no assistants are used. Open water training is 8/1 with no assistants, 1 assistant takes it to 10/1 and 2 or more assistants takes the ratio to 12/1. Max number of students in OW is 12 for entry level. When you get to courses beyond entry level (with the exception of certain courses) the ratios are 10/1 with no assistants, 1 assistant makes it 16/1, 2 assistants is 20/1 and 3 assistants is 22/1. So if you are training AOW students and you have 3 assistants you can take 22 students down with you as long as you don't exceed 80 feet. When you are going deeper than 80 feet the instructor may only take 4 students but if there are assistants (no matter how many) you may increase that number to 8 on a dive over 80 feet. Needless to say these criteria are for IDEAL conditions, warm, calm, crystal clear water. Change any of those factors and the instructors are supposed to lower the number of students they take. I'm certain that was something that was changed this year to give the instructors a little more leeway with the number of students they take.

I personally don't know how they do it, when we take students out it's in groups of 4 and we prefer to do that with 1 instructor and 1 assistant so there is an experienced diver for each buddy pair as well as a buddy for each experienced diver.

Those ratios are the "standard ratios" and both the OW, AOW as well as the skin diver sections refer you to them for your student instructor ratios.

Ber

 

[92630Diver]

I just completed OW certification. There were 8 people and 2 instructors in the class (a Master Instructor and Assistant Instructor). From what I understand 15 people had registered for the course originally. Had the other 7 shown up it would have been extremely crowded within the swimming pool for the confined water skills (very small pool within the sporting goods store that provided the lessons).

 

[chris_b]

Ok, I took a rough count today (rough because I can't see much w/o my contacts in) and I think there are 23 students in the class, and 8 Assistant Instructors. I think the guy who was our "group leader" had to take an AOW and Rescue to become an AI so it sounds legitimate.

Today's class went much more smoothly and was the first pool session that my wife felt comfortable in (other than the fact that she had to use a BC that was built for a football player and she's 5'0" and <100lbs). I was much more satisfied with today's instruction, though I think this sort of class size is just too much.

Our TA told me that there was a waiting list of ~180 students to get into the scuba classes this semester. There are about 25,000 students and only two sections of the scuba class (limited to 24 students max) per semester, so I guess they don't have much choice.

Anyway, I was happy to get under the water and I think I'm starting to get the hang of equalizing my ear pressure, and I was so happy to see my wife smiling after class for the first time.

Thanks for everyone's input!

Chris

 

[Blargh]

12 students, split into two equal-sized groups

each group had :
1 instructor
1 assistant instructor
1 divemaster
1 divemaster-in-training

 

[Rick Murchison]

Originally posted by Ber Rabbit
I looked again and it's 22/1 with 3 assistants in confined water for scuba training. The 10/1 does apply when no assistants are used. Open water training is 8/1 with no assistants, 1 assistant takes it to 10/1 and 2 or more assistants takes the ratio to 12/1.

Amazing... I've done some more research, and have found that the RSTC has indeed revised things a bit since I last looked - the current maximum ratios (students/assistants/instructor) are 8/0/1; 10/1/1; 12/2/1 - but twelve students to one instructor is the absolute maximum.
Our experience (and we are older than dirt) has set our shop policy at a *planned* max 6/1/1, and a contingent 8/1/1 when scheduling conflicts force students to shuffle their pool sessions. We may go on up to as many as 10/1 with two assistants under extraordinary circumstances with an exceptionally good (no problems of any significance at all) class, but that decision is reviewed carefully by senior staff before it is made. The 22/3/1 ratio is incredible, and in my opinion dangerous.
Rick

 

[DeepSeaDan]

I am a N.A.U.I. Instructor.

From our "Standards & Policies Manual" I quote:

"The maximum number of students per single active-status N.A.U.I. Instructor is ten (10). N.A.U.I. Assistant Instructors in training & who have been formally enrolled in a N.A.U.I. Assistant Instructor course may be used for ratios only in confined water instruction."

The Instructor-to-student ratio increases as the number of active-status Assistant Instructors increases:

One active-status Instructor

- plus-

1 active-status assistant = 16 students allowable

2 active-status assistants = 20 " "

3 active-status assistants = 22 " "

* 22 students is the maximum allowable for confined water training

In my current basic scuba diver course we have 14 students & 2 certified divers doing a refresher. I have 5 A.I's assisting me. I lead the group in skills description/demonstration, & the A.I.'s conduct skills practice with the students under my direction. N.A.U.I. does not mandate that all skills must first be demonstrated by the presiding Instructor; however, it is the Instructor's responsibility to insure the students receive the proper instruction throughout the program.

I firmly believe in providing as much individualized instruction as possible. I have a stable of A.I.'s to call upon if a student(s) falls behind or needs remedial work. I bring these A.I.'s in as additional assistance in such circumstances, so as not to take away from the needs of the main group. My team is dedicated to providing the most thorough, safe, professional scuba instruction possible & we are constantly searching for new ways to improve.

And we all love what we do!

Regards,
D.S.D.


Note: Sorry Rick & Ber for the repetitiveness...I should read all the posts before jumping in!
D.S.D.

 

[Rick L]

Hey ! Then the standards dont say the intructor has to buy the student a ice cream?? Boy I didn't know how lucky I was!!
My OW water instructor was a nice as pie. And he answered every dumb question I asked(and I asked a lot hehe)
I think any instructor who yells at a student having trouble
should think about anouther profession!!! I think the only time
he should get upset at a student is when a student screws around and distracts other students!!

Rick L

 

[Northeastwrecks]

nt

 

[Ber Rabbit]

While I agree that 22 students is a lot even with three assistants it's still 3 buddy pairs for the instructor and 2 assistants and 2 buddy pairs for the other assistant. That's a manageable number for pool work depending on the skill of the help and how the lesson is designed. You can always ask the buddy pairs one at a time to perform the skills for evaluation in the shallow water while the other buddy pairs either practice the skill (octopus breathing is practiced on the surface with someone at least on the pool deck to answer questions) or review old skills such as mask clearing.

Remember, I work with a university and we have 20 hours of pool time so a large group is easier to manage since we have lots of time to cover skills. Anyone having trouble can be paired off with an assistant for individual help. I can't imagine trying to keep up with 16 students, let alone 22 in a shorter course. I don't know how many hours of pool time your shop uses but I do like your ratios. When we have a class that small (6-8 students) we get some play time once the skills are finished for the day. We have a couple of underwater frisbees and after skills are done we go to the deep end with the students and play frisbee. Helps them become more comfortable in the water and we critique their buddymanship and ascent rates here--no chasing the frisbee without taking your buddy and you must not surface faster than 30 fpm if the frisbee goes to the surface (one is positively buoyant, the other negative).

Our OW ratios are 4/1/1 in Ohio quarries and up to 6/0/1 in Florida (with REALLY good students) but no more.

Ber

 

[Rick Murchison]

Originally posted by Ber Rabbit
When we have a class that small (6-8 students)

We have a little mis-communications here... Our current class, for example, has 22 students. But for the pool we split them up into four groups, each with their own instructor and DiveCon, at different times. They get approximately 12.5 hours of in water pool time, spread over five sessions, followed by one skin and four scuba dives in Florida springs and two dives in the Gulf before certification. This is not your "weekend" course - but it produces safe, aware divers.
Rick