How many dives before you cease to be a beginner ? [Poll]

[Stoo]

I don't thing you can quantify what a "Beginner" is. Perhaps "Inexperienced" but not Beginner. I've trained the odd person that I asked to stay on to become pool helpers and invited them diving as soon as they were certified. They just "got it". On the other hand, I know people with 15 years of experience, and who are cave certified and mix certified and have all the stuff and hundreds of dives, and I won't dive with them.

 

[Ayisha]

When you choose "other" in the poll, which states "please specify", it doesn't give the option of specifying.

I think it's a combination of number of dives, experience in a broad range of environments, and at least some proficiency in basic skills like buoyancy and trim.

Ultimately, when you observe a diver from the time they put their equipment together to entering, diving, and exiting the water, they will usually reveal themselves. If someone looks like a beginner diver, they will likely be perceived as a beginner diver no matter how many dives they have.

 

[Efka76]

In my opinion, 100 dives should give sufficient confidence to diver and basic skills of buoyancy, trim, air consumption. Also, if you dive in the same location, you become quite familiar with that locations and be good in navigation. However, when you move to a new location, you there might be different diving conditions to which you are accustomed: much deeper dives, strong currents, lower visibility, colder temperature, overhead environment and etc. In this case diver needs to work on new set of skills and becomes semi-newbie

 

[NYCNaiad]

When you choose "other" in the poll, which states "please specify", it doesn't give the option of specifying.

I believe the specify was intended as a prompt to explain below in the thread as you've done.

 

[CT-Rich]

I think the "new environment" argument is as lame as any other. A bad diver with 1000 dives is going to be just as bad in any new environment. A GOOD diver with 30 dives, is going to be much more apt to adapt to said environment quickly and safely.

A new environment doesn't necessarily a "beginner" make. A good diver will adapt quickly and safely and will very quickly be as adept in whatever environment. I think @Searcaigh 's astute use of the word "learner" is much more applicable. He's certainly not a "beginner," and I would posit a guess that he could just as quickly adapt to ice diving as any of the other diving he has done. The converse is that a new environment might make a poor diver worse, but at that point we're really just splitting hairs. Not splitting hares. That's messy.

I don’t disagree, I think my point was, you are always learning. “Beginner” is something you shed over time. It’s not a circumcision, where there is a snip-snip-snip you are an experienced diver. You get certified and you gain experience, but you run into new experiences all the time. Some things like boat entry, cold water, low vis, will be met at different times by different divers.

 

[Shawn Sorah]

I’ve known guys who have a lot of dives but their skills were lacking. I’ve also known guys who have had as few as 20 dives but their skills were very good.... so the way I determine someone as a diver or non beginner is based on skill set and composure alone. Do they remain calm and work through equipment failures, how is their buoyancy control, are there fin kicks adiquate, what’s their swim position, are they mindful of other divers and lastly do they demonstrate an awareness of the marine ecosystem through good diving practices.

 

[clownfishsydney]

I was referring to Dave Shaw. Of his 333 dives before he died, as far as I can figure out, about 60% were as part of various training courses he did (OW, AOW, Cave, rebreather, etc etc).

 

[JohnnyC]

I was referring to Dave Shaw. Of his 333 dives before he died, as far as I can figure out, about 60% were as part of various training courses he did (OW, AOW, Cave, rebreather, etc etc).

I don't know much about Dave Shaw, just what I've seen online and in The Last Dive or whatever that documentary was called. As someone who dives a rebreather in caves, the video is pretty hard to watch. You can see exactly what happens throughout the dive. I don't want to say that you can see that he is inexperienced, because I don't know what to chalk up to inexperience, and what to chalk up to the drive to complete his goal. In and of itself, there are things he did that could go either way. The drive to succeed can quite easily cause even an experienced, well-qualified diver to make a fatal error.

I'd be curious to know what sort of experience he had in between training progressions.

 

[Storker]

I don't know much about Dave Shaw, just what I've seen online and in The Last Dive or whatever that documentary was called.

"To boldly go"

As someone who dives a rebreather in caves, the video is pretty hard to watch. You can see exactly what happens throughout the dive.

I have of course seen Simon Mitchell's presentation in South Africa on respiratory physiology and CO2 retention, but if you have additional comments I'd appreciate those.

 

[Shawn Sorah]

I’ve been diving rebreathers for a good while now and I would say this about Dave Shaw’s death... around the time that he died I was just starting to do bigger deeper dives... so I’m not a dive god or anything I just remember back then the sample source for information was very small. In fact I bet when Dave Shaw died there were less than 10 people who would have dove to 900 foot on a CCR... contrary to today I know several guys who routinely hit 800+ feet. I guess what I’m getting at is his experience wasn’t enough to successfully to pull off a 900’ dive... but then again not a lot of people were either. In my opinion that should have been a hard hat dive.. just my opinion though. Fast forward a decade and we all know that gas density is a major factor in respiratory failure, we now know that gas density is the real limiting factor for a diver and his equipment. I’m not picking on Dave Shaw or his partner but I think the science of his fetality has a lot to teach us. That deep you really need to know what your metabolic rate is, are you a CO2 retainer, a heart rate monitor may have saved his life but those weren’t even available then... either way it’s good subject matter and got me thinking. Thanks for starting a thread that creates a little self reflection.