How long can my regs go without rebuilding?

[bluebubble1995]

Well, do your regs generally last 10 years before they break? What happened with the reg that broke? Was it in the water or a pre-dive let down?

Sorry if I wasn't clear but I've never had a reg malfunction except for rental units in COZ 15 years ago. My point was that due to the $130 average rebuild fee at my LDS it's cheaper to toss them every 10 years and buy new.

 

[ianr33]

I have noticed one peculiarity with my regs after they are stored away for a year. When they get taken out of mothballs they hard to breath for one breath and make a sort of light pop as something inside gets freed up, like a rubber un-sticking momentarily.

Some of my Apeks regs will do that. Always assumed it is the exhaust valve sticking to the body of the reg. After the first breathe they are fine.

 

[rstofer]

Almost anyone with mechanical inclination can disassemble and reassemble a diving regulator. The real work of a regulator technician begins during inspection of parts and surfaces during cleaning and just prior to reassembly. This is where you detect faults on hard parts that might cause a problem. The real work of a regulator technician begins during run-in of the regulator prior to testing. The real work of a regulator technician is in the atmospheric pressure testing and regulator tuning.


Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

I posted a while back that I was not satisfied with 3 regs I had serviced locally. All 3 free-flowed within minutes. I'm just guessing (plus I did a little reading) that the reg wasn't cycled sufficiently before the adjustments were made. Yes, the shop retuned the regs but that's not the point. If I have the feeling that the service was inadequate, do I really want to dive them? Uh... No.

I have started sending my regulators to Phil for service. Sure, it takes a little longer due to shipping across the country and the shipping isn't free but I am convinced the work is done well. So far I have had two complete regs serviced and I am sending a third today.

If you have the time for shipping delays, it is worth the time to talk to Phil and see if he can service your brand of regs. I know he services Oceanic Omega II's and that's all I care about.

Richard

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

.....Note: The MOST common complaint we get, when we get complaints after rebuild, is the result of complete, absolute, and instant failure of the high-pressure seats. This is the result of lack of proper process control in the manufacture of the seats and is out of the control of even the best of regulator technicians. This almost never happened 10 years ago, but has become more common of late. One thing a regular technician cannot predict is catastrophic failure of an improperly made seat. Proper testing and long run-in has the potential to detect some of this. We use about 12 HP seats for every 10 regulators we rebuild.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

Phil, just wanted to thank you for posting this. This has to be pretty frustrating for you as a scuba business owner and technician (having to worry about defective parts), and takes some courage as a business to to disclose that there are somtimes quality control issues with some regulator parts. The fact that you are so honest about this kind of stuff is just one of the many reasons I enjoy doing business with you. Keep up the good work.

Best wishes.

 

[martzak]

People talk about using the IP gauge to check for impending or progressive failures. I have an IP gauge that I use to check the intermediate pressure, but I know there is a lot more to it than 'just checking the IP at equilibrium'. What is IP creep etc.? Can someone elaborate in detail, please. Thanks. My apologies for hijacking this thread.

 

[martzak]

Disregard my previous post. This link answered all my questions:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/260452-regulator-checklist-inspection.html

 

[slackercruster]

Originally Posted by PhilEllis
.....Note: The MOST common complaint we get, when we get complaints after rebuild, is the result of complete, absolute, and instant failure of the high-pressure seats. This is the result of lack of proper process control in the manufacture of the seats and is out of the control of even the best of regulator technicians. This almost never happened 10 years ago, but has become more common of late. One thing a regular technician cannot predict is catastrophic failure of an improperly made seat. Proper testing and long run-in has the potential to detect some of this. We use about 12 HP seats for every 10 regulators we rebuild.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment



Which regs are more prone to HP seat failure?

 

[PhilEllis]

Which regs are more prone to HP seat failure?

I certainly wouldn't want to get into a discussion of brands on this issue, as I clearly don't have any statistically valid information and my personal experience does not represent a large enough database for brand conclusions.

I will say that IN MY OPINION, the companies that use the "sharp crown/hard seat" design principles would be more likely to see failures due to process control issues. The hard molded plastic seat you see on regulators that use this philosophy require excellent process control during the molding and assembly process. For instance, I am nearly certain that every manufacturer specifies absolutely virgin resin for the molding of these parts. In addition, mold design would require that there are no "stress" lines or "flow" lines in the part. Depending on the specific material used, the accidental introduction of even small amounts of regrind plastic in the process could result in a final product with properties that are less than desirable. Changes in cooling rates and processing temperatures during molding could easily compromise the seat properties.

I do know that the quality assurance departments of the major manufacturers do considerable life and cycle testing on each batch of seats that arrive from the OEM manufacturers. One major manufacturer told me that they cycle sample seats, from each manufacturing batch, over 500,000 times and demand no failures before that batch is cleared for assembly. This is pretty extensive testing, but it is sample testing, so it is possible for a few failures to sneak through.

The important point is.......the regulator manufacturer and the authorized dealer BOTH play a key role in the delivery of a new regulator and the service of regulators each year. The fact that we see occasional failures in regulator seats is actually a good thing. It means that the dealer is PROPERLY testing and servicing the regulator, regardless if it is new or a rebuild. The authorized dealer, doing proper setup and delivery of the regulator, is PART OF the quality control process.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

 

[marchand]

People talk about using the IP gauge to check for impending or progressive failures. I have an IP gauge that I use to check the intermediate pressure, but I know there is a lot more to it than 'just checking the IP at equilibrium'. What is IP creep etc.? Can someone elaborate in detail, please. Thanks. My apologies for hijacking this thread.

IP creep is when the IP slowly increases until there is enough pressure to open the LP seat slightly causing it to hiss. It is caused by the HP seat not being fully seated, and several things can cause that. I once had a reg that had an IP creep that when I opened it up I found that an oring had basically disentigrated and a small peice of it was laying across the HP seat. After removing the debris and replacing the oring there was no longer an IP creep.

I almost forgot to mention that the reg had the IP creep for maybe 20 dives before I got around to fixing it. I wouldn't recommend ignoring problems like that; I did and got away with it...

 

[scubaisme]

Problem with people thinking they can ÅÓebuild their own regulators is a bit ambitious. One you are working on life support equipment. Two if your not using oem parts you are playing with fire. Someone on this board is wanting to make up his own kits and sell them. That to me is ridiculous. People often take their equipment apart and ÅÓeplace the parts that come in the kit. There is a LOT to be said for experience. The experienced technician sees things that you will not or do not know to look for. You can not gain that from taking a class or reading a book. Replacing parts is not overhauling the regulator. Properly lubing what needs lubed and not lubing what doesnÃÕ so it will not cake with dirt is huge. Do you have a poppet seating machine that you use before you do your final adjustment? If not are you purging it enough before adjusting? If not people wonder why they go on dive trips and after 20 dives say they have free flows. Do yourself a big favor send the regs to a certified tech for overhaul and have it check every year