No! That's how people die. If you want to take a peek, go back on another dive with the appropriate gear and plan in place.
How is the agility of a SM rig?
- Thread starter the Hermit
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No! That's how people die. If you want to take a peek, go back on another dive with the appropriate gear and plan in place.
BabyDuck
Contributor
i'd consider unclipping the back, swinging one tank forward, and seeing if i fit, but not taking a tank off. nope, not gonna happen.
OP
the Hermit
Registered
Understand and agree - just wanted to hear if my imagination was in line with reality. I was imagining a situation where I really wanted to look 15 or 20 feet further and return to the bottle - not as a way to limit out an exploration. Ive never been in a tight cave, but, have read about the tank handling that teams do to get past tight spots, and this seemed the same idea.
Im encouraged. My imaginative thinking has aligned very well with what others have said here. For me its a good sign that I am getting a comfortable feel for SM diving just thru discussion and visualization. This has always been an important way that I learn and reinforce my skills.
Thanks again... Don
Im encouraged. My imaginative thinking has aligned very well with what others have said here. For me its a good sign that I am getting a comfortable feel for SM diving just thru discussion and visualization. This has always been an important way that I learn and reinforce my skills.
Thanks again... Don
OP
the Hermit
Registered
whoops - didn't see the last dive a holic and baby duck responses before post #13...
Just asking a question of the "mechanics" of doing it - not the strategy/planning of doing it. Personally, I avoid unnecessary switches/actions whenever possible, and don't like being out of contact with my gear. Had considered the swing maneuver, and would worry about getting hung up.
My full thought actually was = unclip the tank and secure it within arms reach - then get past the tight spot - then reach back and recover the tank - reattach - then continue on. Always within contact of tank. If it was so tight I couldn't reach back and reacquire the equipment, I wouldn't be comfortable continuing. But I thought it was to much space and people's time to take up describing my entire thought - so I just asked the simpler question of clipping off one tank.
Peace...
Just asking a question of the "mechanics" of doing it - not the strategy/planning of doing it. Personally, I avoid unnecessary switches/actions whenever possible, and don't like being out of contact with my gear. Had considered the swing maneuver, and would worry about getting hung up.
My full thought actually was = unclip the tank and secure it within arms reach - then get past the tight spot - then reach back and recover the tank - reattach - then continue on. Always within contact of tank. If it was so tight I couldn't reach back and reacquire the equipment, I wouldn't be comfortable continuing. But I thought it was to much space and people's time to take up describing my entire thought - so I just asked the simpler question of clipping off one tank.
Peace...
The issue with actually removing a tank (other than not being neccesary) is that you have to assume the passage opens up enough to allow you to turn around to get the tank. Unless the restriction is very short, reaching back to get the tank is not an option.
As Marci states, it's a lot simpler and a lot less complicated to just unclip the tail on one tank and swing it forward. Doing so also does not too seriously upset your trim. It also reduces your width a bit so that with a slight roll it can get you more in line with the taller but thinner back mount profile you may have been used to. I found that in side mount I fit "differently" in places that used to be fairly simple in backmount and swinging a tank forward helped me get through narrow restrictions cleanly. A second advantage in a SM scenario is that if the passage does not open up, you have a little more room to work with backing out, and you do not have to worry about 2 tanks "racheting" you into the passage.
Another option for even tighter spots is to unclip the tails on both tanks and swing them both forward, again making it comparatively easy to back out if it does not go. That does have a noticeable impact on trim with steel tanks but if its that snug, the cave profile will prevent you from getting too far from horizontal. Still, if it is that snug, I tend to opt out of going in there.
As Marci states, it's a lot simpler and a lot less complicated to just unclip the tail on one tank and swing it forward. Doing so also does not too seriously upset your trim. It also reduces your width a bit so that with a slight roll it can get you more in line with the taller but thinner back mount profile you may have been used to. I found that in side mount I fit "differently" in places that used to be fairly simple in backmount and swinging a tank forward helped me get through narrow restrictions cleanly. A second advantage in a SM scenario is that if the passage does not open up, you have a little more room to work with backing out, and you do not have to worry about 2 tanks "racheting" you into the passage.
Another option for even tighter spots is to unclip the tails on both tanks and swing them both forward, again making it comparatively easy to back out if it does not go. That does have a noticeable impact on trim with steel tanks but if its that snug, the cave profile will prevent you from getting too far from horizontal. Still, if it is that snug, I tend to opt out of going in there.
Still wouldn't do it. What you're describing is a no mount restriction which requires different gear and a different dive plan. Leaving a cylinder behind on the fly is not a good idea. People have died doing that.
OP
the Hermit
Registered
Most interesting...
I enjoy your insights because it tells me there are subtle possibilities I can only understand by actually diving SM and practicing the new skills... one more reason to try it...
The swing maneuver sounds really cool, and as I think about it I can see how it works in my head.
Ive always been an outside the box thinker who loves to explore limits and possibilities. I don't want to excite things by asking a bunch of what ifs, so Ill beat a retreat now.
Thanks everyone - I will keep what you have shared in mind
I enjoy your insights because it tells me there are subtle possibilities I can only understand by actually diving SM and practicing the new skills... one more reason to try it...
The swing maneuver sounds really cool, and as I think about it I can see how it works in my head.Ive always been an outside the box thinker who loves to explore limits and possibilities. I don't want to excite things by asking a bunch of what ifs, so Ill beat a retreat now.
Thanks everyone - I will keep what you have shared in mind
BabyDuck
Contributor
another thing to think about, hermit, is the sheer time it would take to get the tank off. remember you'd have to undo the reg necklace, undo the bc or drysuit inflator hose, and unsnap both ends (or unsnap the back and take the bungee off the valve). it's not a simple 'snap, snap, done' kinda thing. you'd spend a lot of gas and likely be done with the dive by the time you get it off. but i understand the mental game part of trying to think it through.
OP
the Hermit
Registered
... an "aww haw" moment...
There are two simultaneaous discussions going on here. One is agility and the other is safety.
My key issue is would I have "fun" in a SM rig and the most critical issue for fun, is if SM has the enough agility and response so that I would enjoy it. In a PM with Jax I realized I should have described my "tight opening" question as: how would a sidemount diver maneuver thru a small hula hoop, during an underwater obstacle course competition? The technical solution to this problem is the answer I was looking for - and I learned that clipping off a tank is possible, but problematic; however, unclipping the back sides allows a diver to follow their tanks thru the tight spot, a solution I didn't imagine due to my "non" experience with SM. This is the sort of thing I need to find out, in order to decide if I should spend the time and resources to learn SM.
The manway scenario I used was the best illustrative example I could come up with, at the time, to express the hula hoop question. Unfortunately, the safety issues of my imaginary scenario highjacked the train of questioning.
Still it was a constructive comment on handling a tec penetration. I agree that in the situations described, dropping a tank is a "really" bad idea. Truth is, diving that is that confined doesn't really interest me. I enjoy crystal clarity and cave features, but, pushing my way thru a cave, like a cork in a bottle, would cause me to leave nasty deposits in my suit ... :shocked2:
In my scenario, however, I was actually imagining a 20' x 35' ships bridge, very open, with out any danglies or obstructions, and only a rooftop access hatch to get thru, in order to do a simple look about that single space. It was just a simple and fun peek into a clearly open space - not a blind push thru an unexplored cave system.
None-the-less, SM is clearly a cave divers dream, and if I had your experiences I would probably have made similar responses. I always emphasize care and planning in my more extreme efforts, and I think its a good idea.
Clearly so do you.... Enjoy all the good times you can find... and thanks for the help... Don
ps... And thanks BabyDuck for sharing your insight. This is exactly the info I am curious about. It is the sort of engineering challenge I enjoy developing a solution for. I use about a half dozen customizations (out of twenty experiments), to minimize clutter and make my current rigs more Hermit friendly.
There are two simultaneaous discussions going on here. One is agility and the other is safety.
My key issue is would I have "fun" in a SM rig and the most critical issue for fun, is if SM has the enough agility and response so that I would enjoy it. In a PM with Jax I realized I should have described my "tight opening" question as: how would a sidemount diver maneuver thru a small hula hoop, during an underwater obstacle course competition? The technical solution to this problem is the answer I was looking for - and I learned that clipping off a tank is possible, but problematic; however, unclipping the back sides allows a diver to follow their tanks thru the tight spot, a solution I didn't imagine due to my "non" experience with SM. This is the sort of thing I need to find out, in order to decide if I should spend the time and resources to learn SM.
The manway scenario I used was the best illustrative example I could come up with, at the time, to express the hula hoop question. Unfortunately, the safety issues of my imaginary scenario highjacked the train of questioning.
Still it was a constructive comment on handling a tec penetration. I agree that in the situations described, dropping a tank is a "really" bad idea. Truth is, diving that is that confined doesn't really interest me. I enjoy crystal clarity and cave features, but, pushing my way thru a cave, like a cork in a bottle, would cause me to leave nasty deposits in my suit ... :shocked2:
In my scenario, however, I was actually imagining a 20' x 35' ships bridge, very open, with out any danglies or obstructions, and only a rooftop access hatch to get thru, in order to do a simple look about that single space. It was just a simple and fun peek into a clearly open space - not a blind push thru an unexplored cave system.
None-the-less, SM is clearly a cave divers dream, and if I had your experiences I would probably have made similar responses. I always emphasize care and planning in my more extreme efforts, and I think its a good idea.
Clearly so do you.... Enjoy all the good times you can find... and thanks for the help... Don
ps... And thanks BabyDuck for sharing your insight. This is exactly the info I am curious about. It is the sort of engineering challenge I enjoy developing a solution for. I use about a half dozen customizations (out of twenty experiments), to minimize clutter and make my current rigs more Hermit friendly.
Last edited:
mdax
Contributor
they are +10 agi for all non magic user classes, magic users use rebreathers...obviously
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