How do you wear your mask when your not using it?

[ScubaCRNA]

Scuba once bubbled...


Probably due to being fairly new, and the complexity of the subject matter.

Keep in mind that as this sport grows in popularity and accesability, many of the new comers expect and demand the comforts we are used to. The technology is better and safer now, but this does'nt change the fact we are entering a hostile human environment where life is only sustainable by life support systems. An expedition into this environment is not to be taken lightly, hence I see why something as simple as mask placement could become an important consideration. In the future, with better technology and understanding, we may see things differently or not.

Sorry, your arguement evades the issue of scientific evidence. Although mask placement is trivial when compared to the research DAN is involved in, the fact that research is ongoing in this "sport" is evidence of the importance of research.

I do not think "complexity of the subject matter" and whether someone is "fairly new" is relevant to the current arguement. You have stated that someone else's description is good enough for you and that is fine. However, you may not use that as scientific basis.

Mask placement may be important and, if it is important enough, then provide the scientific evidence as a basis for the conclusion. Without the evidence it is simply a matter, as I stated earlier, of "we've always taught it that way, so it must be right".

 

[Scuba]

ScubaCRNA,

your arguement evades the issue of scientific evidence

True.

By referring to complexity and scuba being relatively new, I was implying that scientific research takes time to produce accurate, verifiable results. A very long time for a thorough understanding.

Its ok to question norms. I was surprised when I got into diving to find almost all the recommendations and guidelines about the affects of pressure on the human body as being backed only by semi conclusive tests, experience, and educated guesses - theory.

Barring scientific evidence, you can either do as you wish or consider the advise of those more experienced. Their findings and beliefs is what drives other to conduct further scientific enquiry. They also provide a path for us to follow with their success, and a path to avoid with their failures. Unless we have evidence to the contrary or wish to experiment ourselves.

 

[MSilvia]

I just checked my PADI Rescue diver manual, and every reference I found that was made to what a distressed diver is likely to do with a mask said that the sign was equipment abandonment, such as pushing a mask off, or spitting out a regulator. Nowhere did I see anything about putting a mask on one's forehead.

It's entirely possible I missed something though... lord knows I often can't find my sunglasses if they're on my head. If you know of a reference to any certification agency publishing the recommendation about foregoing forehead mask wearing, I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[Scuba]

Padi OW manual, pg.156 - 1999 year of publication

Panicked divers, fearing drowning, typically struggle to hold their heads high above the water. They usually fail to establish positive buoyancy, and spit out their regulators and shove their mask up on their forehead. ......

We are not dealing with absolutes here but possibilitities and unknown probabilities.

 

[MSilvia]

Cool, thanks.

 

[devilfish]

At the risk of getting a brick thrown at me, it's ok, let me say one more time what I posted before.
Mask on the forehead or off completely while a diver is still in the water on the surface is not a sign or signal of distress as in "oh, i'm in distress, let me signal someone". It's a matter of being able to breathe when in any level of distress or exhaustion no matter how slight. Most people are nose breathers. That is one of the resons why most are having such a difficult time clearing a mask or mask off underwater while on scuba breathing through the mouth. To dive, people must program themselves to breathe through the mouth. At any level of distress they automatically revert to be nose breathers. That's why they have to remove the mask in order to be able to breathe more comfortably. It's a matter of being able to breathe. When I see a diver on the surface with mask off or on the forehead I assume that either they are ok but don't know any better, or they are in distress. Most instructors, divemasters will look for that. So, don't flair your arms to say hello, and don't remove the mask if you are comfortable untill out of the water.

 

[pt40fathoms]

ScubaCRNA once bubbled...


Whether or not one puts their mask on their forehead wil remain a debate. My questions as to the quote are: What scientific evidence is there that the first place a distressed diver places their mask is on their forehead? Are their any research articles that have taken a significant number of distressed divers and looked at where they place their masks and correlated the placement with a desire to "get comfortable"? I do not ask this to be arguementative but to try to determine if teachings are based on scientific evidence or because of the "it's the way we've always done it" syndrome.

The "evidence" you seek may not be very easy to come by. I know of no paper or study done on the subject of mask placement in relation to a divers state of distress. As in many aspects of psychology, reported observed behavior during a real event is often the means to gathering data. A study in a controlled environment would yield no useful data, as the subjects in the study would not react instinctively, thus making any such study marginal in its effectiveness. It should be noted, that many of the instructional manuals that have been published by various agencies involved in diving, make use of years of observed behavior as a basis of instruction. This is an accepted scientific method, but is however, subject to change as new data is gathered over time.

Hopefully this answers your question/concern on this subject.

ScubaCRNA once bubbled...


If it is comfortable to place the mask on the forehead for a distressed diver then why should I not place it there when I am not distressed so I, too, may be "comfortable"? It is not inconsiderate to place equipment where one is comfortable. It seems rather justified to NOT place it where it is uncomfortable and cause "distress". I know that when I have placed my mask around my neck I feel choked and then feel as though I will break my strap when I pull it back up. If that happened, I'd really be distressed.

I'll limit my response to the first part of this paragraph.

The reason divers are discouraged from pushing the mask up onto the forehead, was explained in my response several posts ago. In a nutshell, it is so that you do not call attention to yourself, by appearing to reject your equipment. This is not the only sign that a diver is in distress, and you can do what you want when in the water or out of the water. However, in consideration of other divers, it is asked that it not be done. Some people unfortunately do what they want and consider only themselves.

ScubaCRNA once bubbled...


Please, if one can, show me the scientific evidence that placing one's mask on their forehead is done due to distress of the diver.

I doubt that any study has been done on that one specific aspect of a diver in distress. However I will search for a report or study that addresses distressed divers in general and hopefully I'll find one that breaks down the various stages or distress and observed responses. I wouldn't hold my breath though, it may not be easy to find.

 

[tinman]

Haven't heard the distress issue before. Interesting. I have heard - don't know whether it is valid - that forehead location could affect a good seal in time. Tough to mess with what TV has imposed for years...back of head seems more hip - like reversed baseball caps I suppose and probably more comfortable for long SI's. Clip sounds like fun, one more thing that I can dangle off my Christmas tree BC...one of the many reasons for being the Tinman...!

 

[Ari]

Two turns are OK. Already lost a mask I wore on my forehead, so I preffer to be more careful these days.

Ari

 

[MonkSeal]

According to SSI and NAUI instructors I talked to: "around neck"