How do you signal air remaining?

[Dectek]

How standard is that throughout Europe? I've watched divemasters in Egypt quickly (very quickly) go through the remaining-air signals... the speed with which they always do that makes me think the signals are very standard.

"T" for 1/2 tank is clear. But it seems that there are more signals than just 1/4... that doesn't seem precise enough...

--Marek

Marek.. From what I have seen at resorts that rent equip with bar guages and when briefing anyone except North Americans the signal is on fingers for 10 bar with "T" meaning 100. A signal of "T" + 4 fingers would be 140 bar. 6 fingers alone would be 60 bar. That is the only way I have ever seen it explained for that type of measurement. It is the imperial system that has folks spinning their wheels. Anyone feel free to correct me if I have perceived this system incorrectly.

 

[ArthurGerla]

6 fingers alone would be 60 bar

60 bar would be a fist followed by one finger.

It's the system I've seen used throughout the Med and the Red Sea. Didn't even know there were other ways. But if you're close enough showing your pressure gauge seems the best method to me. That's certainly the way I was taught in my VDTL (the German CMAS federation) courses.

Art

 

[djanni]

The number of fingers flashed first are thousands and the number flashed second are hundreds.

On the first show of fingers if someone flashes 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 you can be pretty sure it's hundreds.

If that's confusing then the number of fingres across the forearm are thousands and the number held up are hundreds.

 

[friscuba]

The number of fingers flashed first are thousands and the number flashed second are hundreds.

On the first show of fingers if someone flashes 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 you can be pretty sure it's hundreds.

If that's confusing then the number of fingres across the forearm are thousands and the number held up are hundreds.

So if someone flashes 2 fingers, what do they have? I know divers who can outlast me on a tank, and I know for a fact there are divers who can drain a tank by the time I'm down to 2000 psi. 1 finger = 100 psi leaves no room for confusion.

Once you have separate signals/movements for thousands and hundreds, you are adding potential confusion to the matter.

Just my opinion.

 

[String]

If its a shallow dive we typically brief to signal 100 bar and 50 bar with hand signals.

If its anything other than a shallow plop we physically show each other the gauges. This prevents misread hand signals and misreading by the buddy and original person, especially if its deep enough for narcosis to be an issue.

 

[djanni]

They have 2,000. Read my post again.

So how do you do it?

So if someone flashes 2 fingers, what do they have? I know divers who can outlast me on a tank, and I know for a fact there are divers who can drain a tank by the time I'm down to 2000 psi. 1 finger = 100 psi leaves no room for confusion.

Once you have separate signals/movements for thousands and hundreds, you are adding potential confusion to the matter.

Just my opinion.

 

[Mo2vation]

This is like the best post ever! Seriously, what a cluster.

Man - this is the poster child for a pre-dive meeting in the parking lot or on the deck with the insta-buddy du jour.

I'm surprised nobody has linked to that "international underwater signing" whatever it is page that spews to have the solution to signing numbers, etc. Most of us have been there, seen the page, but didn't bother to buy the book. Like I need to "know" the sign for a spiralus turbanis Snailus. Its a snail... like I point those out, anyway. Please.

The only "signs" I NEED to know are:

* "OOA"

* "I gotta pee"

* "I REALLY gotta pee"

* "Shark"

* "Gimnie your wetnotes so I can stop this signing crap and tell you what I really want to say..." (PS: this sign is writing in the air or on your palm... similiar to "check, please")

Everything else isn't really that urgent.

Wetnotes are $13 from COVCI... Skip a couple of DQP meals and you're there.

Just flash the guage. How hard is that? If its too short, get a longer hose. Your SPG is as much for your buddy as you.

This thread so completely rules. I can read this stuff all night.

---
Ken

 

[friscuba]

They have 2,000. Read my post again.

So how do you do it?

From your post... "The number of fingers flashed first are thousands and the number flashed second are hundreds."

I've seen divers drain a tank at 25' in 20 minutes. 2 fingers would not mean 2000 for them unless it was only 5-6 minutes into the dive. Unfortunately, the divers who drain their air that fast generally are not quick to be checking their air. To do your method you suddenly would need to have a signal for "no" thousands. The more signalls involved, the more room for operator error.

Virtually everyone out here (Hawaii) who actually has worked as a guide for any length of time uses 1 finger = 100psi. We do get DMs and Instructors who come from other areas who use their own method, but after taking 6 strangers at a time out for days, months or years on end, they tend to switch to the simplest methond that everyone can understand. 1700 pounds for example would be show the full open hand three times followed by showing 2 fingers. This works for EVERYONE who has the normal complement of fingers. Any diver can pick this method up in seconds, and from what I've seen in 6+ years of leading dives, it is the most commonly taught single method out there.

The military/tech method works well, but most people don't pick it up instanly. Anything involving zeros, often times (I'd guess roughly quarter to a third of the time from what I've seen) ends up having the incorrect number of zeros - I now double check anyone who flashes zeros anymore because mistakes are so prevalent. Anything which involves touching multiple body parts doesn't generally get picked up well by those knowing other methods, add to that if you hit your wrist or arm with gloved fingers which match the color of the wetsuit, it's oftentimes tough to read as the person on the receiving end of the signal.

later,

 

[djanni]

1700 pounds for example would be show the full open hand three times followed by showing 2 fingers. This works for EVERYONE who has the normal complement of fingers. Any diver can pick this method up in seconds, and from what I've seen in 6+ years of leading dives, it is the most commonly taught single method out there.

Yeah, This is better.

 

[Marek K]

This is like the best post ever! Seriously, what a cluster.

Ken, it is a cluster. that's the point. People assume there's a universal standard, and there isn't.

Not everyone is in your situation, and has the luxury of diving with regular buddies all the time. Sometimes there's a requirement for a DM-guided dive for less-experienced divers (like our two kids)... except they're maybe following behind another buddy team, who's behind the DM. DM expects hand signals like from 15 meters away to show remaining air, and assumes that everybody knows the same standard... Except the DMs here work in metric, and our kids have psi gauges.

OK, signals need to be covered in the pre-dive briefing. And we pull the DM aside and make sure he knows we have psi SPGs, and work out hand signals. Usually, we just agree to flash SPGs... we just have to make sure the DM knows that 3,000 psi is full.

--Marek