How different are tec courses agency to agency

[KevinNM]

In term of statistic, there are two indicators that define what good quality is: 1)The average quality. 2)The variation from the average. This should be independent of sample size. I am sure both PADI and GUE can have same quality instructors, do you truely believe they have the same average and variation?

They CAN, but I tend to doubt that PADI HAS the same instructor quality. What is the requirement to enroll in a PADI TEC instructor course?

To enroll in a Tec Deep Instructor course, you must:

• Be a renewed PADI Instructor
• Be a PADI Enriched Air Diver
• Be a PADI Enriched Air Instructor, or have completed a PADI Enriched Air Instructor course.
• Be a PADI Deep Specialty Instructor, or have completed a PADI Deep Specialty Instructor course.
• Have a minimum of 100 logged dives, with at least 20 enriched air dives, 25 dives deeper than 18 metres/60 feet and 15 dives deeper than 30 metres/100 feet.

Admittedly the requirement to get certified as a PADI TEC instructor is more then that:

Prior to sending in your Tec Deep Instructor application, you must also:

• Be a renewed PADI Master Scuba Diver Trainer
• Be a PADI Enriched Air Instructor
• Be a PADI Deep Specialty Instructor
• Be a Tec 50 Diver
• Have assisted with at least one Tec 50 Diver course or one Tec 45 Diver course
• Have a minimum of 270 dives logged, with at least 25 stage decompression dives deeper than 40 metres/130 feet.
• Have certified a total of 10 or more PADI Deep Divers and/or PADI Enriched Air Divers.
• Have successfully completed the Tec Deep Instructor course exams.
• Meet a peer review waterskill requirement.

This allows you to teach TEC 40, TEC 45, and TEC 50.

So essentially you need to be adequate at teaching open water skills, have done a reasonable amount of diving, have taken the course you are supposed to teach, have 25 deco dives to a depth that may or may not be to the depth you are certified to teach, and "assisted" - whatever that means - with one class.

Now I'm sure it is possible to find highly skilled PADI TEC instructors, but the qualifications shown don't seem to be suggestive of an aggressive screening and qualification process.

 

[boulderjohn]

• Have successfully completed the Tec Deep Instructor course exams.
• Meet a peer review waterskill requirement.

This allows you to teach TEC 40, TEC 45, and TEC 50.

So essentially you need to be adequate at teaching open water skills, have done a reasonable amount of diving, have taken the course you are supposed to teach, have 25 deco dives to a depth that may or may not be to the depth you are certified to teach, and "assisted" - whatever that means - with one class.

Now I'm sure it is possible to find highly skilled PADI TEC instructors, but the qualifications shown don't seem to be suggestive of an aggressive screening and qualification process.

Your summary did not include the watermanship and course instructor exam requirements. Any reason you left out the fact that you have to demonstrate required skills and knowledge?

 

[tursiops]

They CAN, but I tend to doubt that PADI HAS the same instructor quality. What is the requirement to enroll in a PADI TEC instructor course?

To enroll in a Tec Deep Instructor course, you must:

• Be a renewed PADI Instructor
• Be a PADI Enriched Air Diver
• Be a PADI Enriched Air Instructor, or have completed a PADI Enriched Air Instructor course.
• Be a PADI Deep Specialty Instructor, or have completed a PADI Deep Specialty Instructor course.
• Have a minimum of 100 logged dives, with at least 20 enriched air dives, 25 dives deeper than 18 metres/60 feet and 15 dives deeper than 30 metres/100 feet.

Admittedly the requirement to get certified as a PADI TEC instructor is more then that:

Prior to sending in your Tec Deep Instructor application, you must also:

• Be a renewed PADI Master Scuba Diver Trainer
• Be a PADI Enriched Air Instructor
• Be a PADI Deep Specialty Instructor
• Be a Tec 50 Diver
• Have assisted with at least one Tec 50 Diver course or one Tec 45 Diver course
• Have a minimum of 270 dives logged, with at least 25 stage decompression dives deeper than 40 metres/130 feet.
• Have certified a total of 10 or more PADI Deep Divers and/or PADI Enriched Air Divers.
• Have successfully completed the Tec Deep Instructor course exams.
• Meet a peer review waterskill requirement.

This allows you to teach TEC 40, TEC 45, and TEC 50.

So essentially you need to be adequate at teaching open water skills, have done a reasonable amount of diving, have taken the course you are supposed to teach, have 25 deco dives to a depth that may or may not be to the depth you are certified to teach, and "assisted" - whatever that means - with one class.

Now I'm sure it is possible to find highly skilled PADI TEC instructors, but the qualifications shown don't seem to be suggestive of an aggressive screening and qualification process.

Not very different from the prerequisites to be a TDI Extended Range Instructor:
1. Minimum age 21
2. Provide proof of 250 logged dives, 25 must be extended range dives
3. Certification as a TDI Extended Range Diver or equivalent
4. Certification as a TDI Advanced Nitrox and Staged Decompression Instructor or equivalent
5. Must have certified 10 students in advanced nitrox diver or decompression procedures diver, a minimum of
5 must be decompression procedures divers

 

[KevinNM]

Your summary did not include the watermanship and course instructor exam requirements. Any reason you left out the fact that you have to demonstrate required skills and knowledge?

I was really focusing on the experience you need to have to be allowed to take the tests. The GUE requirement for a Tech 1 instructor candidate is (from the standards doc) passed Tech 1, Tech 2, Cave 1, be a fundies instructor, have taught at least 5 fundies courses, pass the 600y/14 minute swim test (and other basic instructor requirements), and intern in at least one current complete class. Then you can start the instructor training process.

 

[Omisson]

In term of statistic, there are two indicators that define what good quality is: 1)The average quality. 2)The variation from the average. This should be independent of sample size. I am sure both PADI and GUE can have same quality instructors, do you truely believe they have the same average and variation?

It's irrelevant what I believe.

Statistics don't require belief- it requires adequate sample size and objective test questions / proper criteria sampling measurements. Unfortunately we have no objective data for the comparison to be meaningful.

I would agree that In sufficiently small groups tighter quality control is possible (GUE)- but you generally can't eliminate the bell curve.

But similarly, with sufficiently larger groups - wider deviance is likely (PADI)- because the sheer numbers afford some greater or lesser degree of separation from the control mechanisms that ensure quality control.


I'd agree that Statistically it's likely that GUE has as a percentage fewer "bad" instructors than PADI.

Similarly - PADI likely has many more good instructors than GUI has instructors, absolutely.

Not sure either really tells us anything on a true scalability chart.

 

[PfcAJ]

It's irrelevant what I believe.

Statistics don't require belief- it requires adequate sample size and objective test questions / proper criteria sampling measurements. Unfortunately we have no objective data for the comparison to be meaningful.

I would agree that In sufficiently small groups tighter quality control is possible (GUE)- but you generally can't eliminate the bell curve.

But similarly, with sufficiently larger groups - wider deviance is likely (PADI)- because the sheer numbers afford some greater or lesser degree of separation from the control mechanisms that ensure quality control.


I'd agree that Statistically it's likely that GUE has as a percentage fewer "bad" instructors than PADI.

Similarly - PADI likely has many more good instructors than GUI has instructors, absolutely.

Not sure either really tells us anything on a true scalability chart.

I think it's kinda funny that even though padi has a ridiculous amount of instructors and gue only has about 200 that you had to put "likely" before "has many more good instructors than gue has instructors".

Think that through for a second.

 

[waterpirate]

I am not a PADI advocate, however 4 years ago I took some training from a PADI/GUE maybe/TDI instructor. At that time the PADI tech thing only had 3 instructors on the east coast, with 1 being in cave country. For the statistics argument to hold up, how many PADI tech instructors are there now? Far far less than the rest of their instructor cadre would be my guess.

In my experience I was blown away by the instructor, not the agency. That experience is what prompted me to change my sig line to what it is. I asked the instructor about the multiple instructor cards and his reply was " I teach solid people to be solid tech divers, I will give them whatever card they want and meet those standards".

So 5 pages later we are back to instructor not agency.
YMMV
Eric

 

[Omisson]

I think it's kinda funny that even though padi has a ridiculous amount of instructors and gue only has about 200 that you had to put "likely" before "has many more good instructors than gue has instructors".

Think that through for a second.

Because unlike you - I'm not given to baseless speculation and fanatical agency jingoism when it comes to answering a question- I prefer being objectively critical.

I do not know precisely how many PADI OWSIs there are - do you?- let alone how many PADI Tec instructors there are - again do you know?- .

Also, I am not sure how many GUE instructors there are - I assume you know when you say it's 200- but I don't know- so I wasn't going to give an unqualified response because I'm not given to the sort of hyperbole as fact that so often results anytime GUE is discussed or PADI is referenced.

Hope that makes it clear.... For you.

 

[PfcAJ]

It doesn't take too much effort to look at the gue website and count 'em up.

And let's be real. Padis tech manual is downright funny. Dudes kneeling on the bottom. Come on guys, get it together!

 

[Omisson]

It doesn't take too much effort to look at the gue website and count 'em up.

And let's be real. Padis tech manual is downright funny. Dudes kneeling on the bottom. Come on guys, get it together!

Beyond the fact that I've never looked at the GUE instructor list before hearing your estimate of 200.... it may interest you to know there are actually only 139 listed. Not that you are given to exaggeration or anything.... But I'm sure you feel a 30% error is statistically insignificant to you...

So back to your post, I assume your answer to my questions:

How many PADI OWSI are there, is: "I don't know"....

And

How many PADI Tec instructors are there, is: "I don't know"...

Given this you wonder why I gave qualified answers.... Amazing. Ever do any actual science or statistics work?

Sorry, I just don't like making such baseless assumptions - especially in the absence of a modicum of facts..... I see your comfortable with it but most people wouldn't be.

As for your last swipe- you do realize what a hypocrite you are- right? The current PADI Tec 40,45,50 manual is actually very good (have you even seen it?) and if you base your evaluation of a course on a picture in an old version of a book- I guess you are displaying just the sort of non-critical analysis which I alluded to earlier....so can we judge GUE on its rebreather commentary in its books from 10 years ago now? Didn't u just oppose such an idea on another thread somewhere else?