How deep do you usually dive?

[miketsp]

Woah guys, ease off, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. To a beginner all that appeared in 5 pages of posts were are few comments that there are some rules and and limits but nowhere did anybody actually state that it is dangerous to pass those limits unless you understand them, know what they are and why they exist.
As for the comment about acclimatising to narcosis all I can say is that this is a widely held belief worldwide. I normally dive with 5 or 6 different operators every year and as I recall all of them without exception consider that there is an acclimatisation over a week's diving.
I ran a quick check now on the Internet and found repeated phrases of the type:
" BUILD UP SLOWLY - Just because you could happily do 35 metres at the end of last season, deep wreck penetration, or long decompression dives, doesn't mean you can plunge straight back into it now. Depths need to be built up over a period of time.
Your body needs to acclimatise to depth, pressure and narcosis."
or
"DIVE FITNESS - After any break, fitness deteriorates, skills are
forgotten, acclimatisation is lost (making you more prone to narcosis etc.). The
longer the break, the greater the loss."
Hundreds of dive clubs and operators publish similar edicts. Now whether the physiological effect is constant and the practical reaction is caused by nervous overbreathing on a first dive after a break, or some other side effect is probably a subject for another thread. Probably it has already been discussed, I only recently signed up on this board so I haven't checked all the threads yet.

Regarding the dive with somebody who has dived regularly and recently to that depth. I am not talking about my buddy (my wife on almost 100% of my dives) but an experienced dive guide or divemaster who will be able to give me feedback on my real performance so I can evaluate accordingly what I will do when he is not present.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Woah guys, ease off, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. To a beginner all that appeared in 5 pages of posts were are few comments that there are some rules and and limits but nowhere did anybody actually state that it is dangerous to pass those limits unless you understand them, know what they are and why they exist.

It was most certainly stated that risk increases with depth.

As for the comment about acclimatising to narcosis all I can say is that this is a widely held belief worldwide. I normally dive with 5 or 6 different operators every year and as I recall all of them without exception consider that there is an acclimatisation over a week's diving.
I ran a quick check now on the Internet and found repeated phrases of the type:
" BUILD UP SLOWLY - Just because you could happily do 35 metres at the end of last season, deep wreck penetration, or long decompression dives, doesn't mean you can plunge straight back into it now. Depths need to be built up over a period of time.
Your body needs to acclimatise to depth, pressure and narcosis."

I don't care how widely believed it is. If you're interested I can dig up some studies to point you to when I get home tnight. The short version is that studies show that while you can learn to compensate to improve performance in some rote tasks by trading speed for accuracy for instance or by focusing more, you can't learn to think better while under the influence of narcosis. Studies also show that even though repeated exposures lead a person to believe that they are less narced, performance doesn't improve.

There are other reasons to build up the complexity of your dives gradually though.

or
"DIVE FITNESS - After any break, fitness deteriorates, skills are forgotten, acclimatisation is lost (making you more prone to narcosis etc.). The
longer the break, the greater the loss."

True. Skills can deteriorate over time.

Regarding the dive with somebody who has dived regularly and recently to that depth. I am not talking about my buddy (my wife on almost 100% of my dives) but an experienced dive guide or divemaster who will be able to give me feedback on my real performance so I can evaluate accordingly what I will do when he is not present.

Still thinking about what to say here.

 

[kokoyo11]

I am still reading this and thanks for all the help!

 

[SDAnderson]

I wrote:

There are divers that go deeper than this, far deeper, but there are big penalties that need to be considered. The deeper you dive, the more dangerous it is (far more dangerous) and the more it costs, in terms of time, training, equipment, planning and supplies. It's not for everyone and that shouldn't be part of the attraction.​

Walter wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks the general trend of this thread is irresponsible considering the person asking the question isn't even certified? The depths being discussed are totally unrealistic for this type of discussion. I'd hate for this kid to die because he felt it was ok to dive ridiculously deep after reading this thread.​

You wrote:

Woah guys, ease off, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. To a beginner all that appeared in 5 pages of posts were are few comments that there are some rules and and limits but nowhere did anybody actually state that it is dangerous to pass those limits unless you understand them, know what they are and why they exist. ​

I think you just proved Walter's point. He's a friend, so I'm sure he'll be gracious about this, only occasionally reminding me of my error over the next 20 years.

...

As to the "widely held belief worldwide" that divers can acclimate to narcosis, phooey. It also used to be widely believed that the world was flat. The narcotic effect of high-pressure gas is still poorly understood but increasingly obvious and the days when we were taught that you could acclimate to nitrogen are over. Hopefully, nobody with more than a casual level of experience is advocating "practice makes perfect" for dealing with narcosis – it doesn’t. Like you wouldn’t advocate that drivers learn to drive while intoxicated, neither should we advocate that divers learn to dive in an inebriated state.

As to your point that a diver who is out of practice should hire a qualified professional to help refresh skills and to provide a critical evaluation, you are absolutely right. I misunderstood what you were saying and withdraw my criticism. Even if I had been right, the tenor of my complaint could have been a little less forceful, for which I also apologise. Sorry.

I do some deep diving. I have invested thousands of dollars in advanced training, tens of thousands of dollars in equipment and decades in practice, practice, practice, so that I can extend my horizons beyond the norms. I still get nervous when planning a deep dive because I know that a single mistake, a single failure, at those depths can and often is fatal. There are no CESA's from 200 feet - to try is to die. The thing about technical dive training that people often don’t understand is that it doesn’t remove any limits, it merely gives you the skills to allow you to dance that much closer to the edge of the cliff. Fall off and you’re still going to get hurt. There is a lot of cool stuff to see at greater than recreational depths, but you have to ask yourself if it’s worth it. For most people, the answer should be no.

So to placate Walter and to edify you and kokoyo11, let me restate: diving is a dangerous activity and exceeding the limits of your training and experience is an excellent way to get seriously hurt or dead. Technical diving in particular is fraught with danger and should not be undertaken by anyone without a substantial amount of experience combined with the training, equipment and temperament to do so safely.

The law of diminishing returns applies to diving. A geometric relationship exists between the complexity of the dive and each additional fathom. It takes a minimal amount of training and equipment to be able to safely dive to 60 feet. Another class and a few more dives and you can probably safely dive to 100 – 130 feet. Beyond 130 feet however, the costs and the risks increase very quickly and it becomes harder and more expensive to accomplish safely. The financial cost of deep diving can be overwhelming, a dive to 300 feet with 15 minutes of bottom time can easily cost $200 just for the gas.

‘nuff said.

 

[seabat]

kokoyo11,

In response to your question, majority of my dives are in the 40 ft range (Virginia, Hawaii and PNW). My deepest was 129 ft. I had to lay on the bottom to get the depth gage to record it. Only did it once and only did it to say I did it. If I had to average my "deep" dives it would be around the 80 ft range and were "wreck" dives in Hawaii (Mahi, corsair, YO 2 something, something, and the old airplane wreck near Makaha).

In regards to the posts about safety, technical diving, limits, etc. well, you got a great bunch of questions to ask your future instructor.

 

[DBailey]

Hey kokoyo11,

Was your original question along the lines of...

At what depth do you see everything at?

...or...

20-30 feet doesn't sound that deep, so do you dive deeper?

Just wondering?

 

[String]

I do not push the tables....120 feet is 12 minutes bottom time for me......60 feet is 55 minutes bottom time. Now if there was a planned reason to go down that deep (to check a wreck etc.) then of course i would stay down as long as possible, but if i had my choice i would plan something toward the shallow end of the water.

Kind of an odd attitude and resitrctive yourself to remaining to within NDLs is a bit mystifying. There is nothing difficult about performing stops at all. You can quite happily stay at 120ft for longer than 12 minutes provided you are capable of holding buoyancy at 6m for a few minutes.

 

[QuoVadis]

Kind of an odd attitude and resitrctive yourself to remaining to within NDLs is a bit mystifying. There is nothing difficult about performing stops at all. You can quite happily stay at 120ft for longer than 12 minutes provided you are capable of holding buoyancy at 6m for a few minutes.

Its not that odd being new to diving (certified last year).....As i gain more expirience that may be an option. I guess the point i am trying to make is that "to me" the marvels of the ocean are just as awesome at 20 feet as it is at 200 feet and i would rather stay down longer doing shallower dives.

 

[Scubakevdm]

I almost always go almost to the bottom.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Kind of an odd attitude and resitrctive yourself to remaining to within NDLs is a bit mystifying. There is nothing difficult about performing stops at all. You can quite happily stay at 120ft for longer than 12 minutes provided you are capable of holding buoyancy at 6m for a few minutes.

String ... this forum is for new divers. I would not, under ANY circumstance, encourage a new diver to go to 120 feet ... much less stay there to the point where deco stops are required.

Please remember who you are talking to. Downplaying the importance of proper training and experience before doing deep, deco diving is a good way to encourage someone to get themselves in a lot of trouble.

You are right that it isn't all that difficult ... provided you have the skills to properly plan your profiles, manage your gas, and maintain your buoyancy on the ascent ... while dealing with any unexpected issues that might arise (since surfacing to deal with them won't be an option). For those who haven't yet developed those skills, it could be an incredibly dangerous thing to do.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)