How Can We Keep Divers Diving After Certification?

[boulderjohn]

Right! But then when I suggest that new divers take AOW right after OW, the instructors go berzerk. They don't even want to dive with their own students.

This question comes up a lot on SB, but my recollection is that it is not the instructors who object as much as the non-instructors who believe just getting more experience will do the trick.

For me, doing AOW immediately after OW is a key reason for my transformation from my vacation diver plan to a more serious diver. I got certified in Puerto Vallarta in preparation for a trip to Cozumel. I did not know it at the time, but I now know that they skipped a whole lot of standards to get me certified in a hurry, and they should have been reported. I only knew I was not confident ini my skills, and I signed up for an AOW class for my first dives in Cozumel. It was an excellent move, and I progressed mightily in my one-person class. I thus had the skills to fully enjoy those first experiences and decide (almost immediately) that this was not going to be an every other year experience.

 

[cerich]

This question comes up a lot on SB, but my recollection is that it is not the instructors who object as much as the non-instructors who believe just getting more experience will do the trick.

For me, doing AOW immediately after OW is a key reason for my transformation from my vacation diver plan to a more serious diver. I got certified in Puerto Vallarta in preparation for a trip to Cozumel. I did not know it at the time, but I now know that they skipped a whole lot of standards to get me certified in a hurry, and they should have been reported. I only knew I was not confident ini my skills, and I signed up for an AOW class for my first dives in Cozumel. It was an excellent move, and I progressed mightily in my one-person class. I thus had the skills to fully enjoy those first experiences and decide (almost immediately) that this was not going to be an every other year experience.

my 2 cents as an instructor who strongly believes the old style long course makes better divers....

You have a almost impossible task to sell that old course in the market the last 15 years. But it IS a easy sell to do the quick and dirty OW course then SELL the AOW Right away.

the student gets his/her ego stroked, I get another 5-6 dives to make them real divers, ones that have good skills and are comfortable enough that they continue diving.

I STRONGLY encourage newly certified divers to start their AOW the minute the OW course is over!

 

[rstofer]

It may be that the baby boomers who flooded the courts and courses in our youth are less interested in such sports as we age. It may be something else.

Any dropoff in scuba may be similar in nature and may have little to do with the sport itself. It may instead reflect larger forces at work.

The demographics thing (the pig in the python - baby boomers) has a lot to do with it. When I was in my 30s and early 40s, I would spend my time racing dirt bikes. I'm too old for that. In my late 40s I would race hydroplanes; now my wife objects.

The pig analogy is pretty good. We created a lot of demand, we had a lot of money and now that we're starting to retire, things are going to change.

Our offspring will never have the discretionary income that we had.

Richard

 

[boulderjohn]

One thing that our shop has been doing is having monthly (or more often) "socials" in which people come to the shop, enjoy free gourmet refreshments (including beer and wine), and view a presentation of some kind. Last night we saw one of the people who helped film the IMAX movie Shark Island talk about how they filmed it, showing behind the scenes pictures and providing interesting details. For example, we learned that it was a 6 month production to get all the film, but they spent more than 90% of that time on the surface filming because an El Nino event meant that what they had come to film--masssive schools of hammerheads--was not happening. A weather shift brought the hammerheads for the last three days of their shooting only, and all the underwater film was shot then.

It was a very interesting presentation, and it was, like all the other socials, very well attended.

The socials cost the shop quite a bit in terms of the refreshments and the raffled door prizes. The owner hopes only that by building a loyal and interested customer base, the store will get a good return on that investment.

 

[Peter Guy]

Dr. Bill, do you really want to know how to get people to continue to dive? Get them to dive. Yes, a tautology, but the key to keeping people diving IS to get them diving. So, how to get them to dive?

In this day and age, with ALL of the competition for time and money out there, you need to provide "them" with the opportunity -- and not make it cost an arm and a leg.

How might this be done?

Before THAT can be answered, I think we have to examine/make a few assumptions as to WHO might be someone willing to "Be A Diver."

a. I agree that a majority of people take OW classes for a specific trip purpose -- NOT for the purpose of becoming "a scuba diver." Almost all of them really enjoy their OW class and have lots of fun in the pool (and many could have more fun, but THAT is another story). They seem to enjoy their OW experiences but, at least here, they find the visibility sucks, it is REALLY cold and the gear is a whole lot heavier and more cumbersome than what they used in the pool.

b. The actual marginal cost of providing Scuba Gear is significantly less than what is charged to rent gear. For many new divers, the cost (not to mention hassle) of renting gear to dive locally severly limits their desire and ability to continue to dive locally.

IF these assumptions are valid, what are possible solutions?

a. In places like the PNW, we need to convince pool operators to have a Scuba Night once every couple of weeks or so to permit the local (non)divers the opportunity to come play with scuba gear. The "pool cert" I read about is a great idea -- in many places where is a better place to practice and get comfortable than in a pool?

b. We need to provide low cost gear so that people will come to the Scuba Nights. So here's a question to the shop owners who might read this, what does it REALLY cost to provide a BC/Reg/Weights for a pool session? How often does something happen to the gear which would damage it? IF that is a real issue, what about gear damage insurance? (Note, my LDS owner tells me that renting a drysuit is so expensive because of the possibility of tearing a seal (or a zipper!). But what if we charged the actual marginal cost (plus profit) and offered "insurance" for those times when something really does go wrong?)

These Scuba Nights would not necessarily be related at all to training (although a smart marketing LDS would certainly provide that possibility). But they could definately be part of the social aspects referred to by so many.

Anyway, Dr. B -- the way to get people to continue to dive is to make it feasible for them to dive. Right now, it seems that the majority of the industry go out of their way to make it difficult for the newly certified diver to continue to dive.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

my 2 cents as an instructor who strongly believes the old style long course makes better divers....

You have a almost impossible task to sell that old course in the market the last 15 years. But it IS a easy sell to do the quick and dirty OW course then SELL the AOW Right away.

the student gets his/her ego stroked, I get another 5-6 dives to make them real divers, ones that have good skills and are comfortable enough that they continue diving.

I STRONGLY encourage newly certified divers to start their AOW the minute the OW course is over!

As much as I respect you Chris I strongly disagree with this. Maybe if this was what I did for a living I could perhaps see this as valid. But while you get the chance to sell a "quick and dirty" course (what a choice of words to describe it) with AOW immediately after, the issue I see and am working on now is those students who got the quick and dirty but did not do the AOW. I'm talking about the ones who did the short course and went to one of those places with the DM's /AI's/ Instructors/ Guides who ignore recommended standards and safety practices and end up with DEAD divers on their hands.

And while I'm the first one to jump on newbies and these so-called guides for being dumb, stupid, reckless, uncaring, etc., I will not excuse the OW instructor who FAILED to instill in these people just what they are getting themselves into. Do this effectively and it;s very easy to sell a longer, more comprehensive course. When I show accident reports, discuss diver deaths and the things that led up to or contributed to them, and show them the difference that having more pool time and a greater knowledge of diving can have for their safety it is usually a no brainer. Again I don't do this for a living and don't want to. As such I'm not out there pushing my classes as I probably could.

I don;t get a lot of students. The ones I do get however dive as often as possible, buy equipment, and are people I would let anyone I cared about dive with unescorted by a "pro". I won't give a card to an OW student I can't say that about. And these people are more likely to come back for more extensive training since they are already comfortable in the water and have the skills required to start my AOW course or any other specialty I teach.

Then again I don't offer a standard AOW tour course. Not that yours is since I've not taken it or seen the standards for it but when divers come to me for AOW training they need to have buoyancy and basic skills down pretty well to get through what I require of them.

 

[ptyx]

Just to validate (or not) the argument about new diver stress impacting retention, I was looking for statistics for both CMAS (FFESSM in that case) and PADI ... but couldn't find any.

Anyone has some? I'm specifically curious about the distribution of divers per qualification level for PADI or SSI and CMAS (or any agency being compatible with CMAS, having the same kind of 'long' training, or a club like approach)?

Edit: How Many Divers Are There? - Undercurrent, May 2007 says I won't find actual numbers

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

They say the diving industry is in decline.

Drbill,

I’d like to ask about your premise that diving is in decline. From your almost front row seat at Casino Point have you seen the number of divers decrease, increase or remain the same over the years?

A.

 

[RonFrank]

One word: phrenology

 

[cerich]

As much as I respect you Chris I strongly disagree with this. Maybe if this was what I did for a living I could perhaps see this as valid. But while you get the chance to sell a "quick and dirty" course (what a choice of words to describe it) with AOW immediately after, the issue I see and am working on now is those students who got the quick and dirty but did not do the AOW. I'm talking about the ones who did the short course and went to one of those places with the DM's /AI's/ Instructors/ Guides who ignore recommended standards and safety practices and end up with DEAD divers on their hands.

And while I'm the first one to jump on newbies and these so-called guides for being dumb, stupid, reckless, uncaring, etc., I will not excuse the OW instructor who FAILED to instill in these people just what they are getting themselves into. Do this effectively and it;s very easy to sell a longer, more comprehensive course. When I show accident reports, discuss diver deaths and the things that led up to or contributed to them, and show them the difference that having more pool time and a greater knowledge of diving can have for their safety it is usually a no brainer. Again I don't do this for a living and don't want to. As such I'm not out there pushing my classes as I probably could.

I don;t get a lot of students. The ones I do get however dive as often as possible, buy equipment, and are people I would let anyone I cared about dive with unescorted by a "pro". I won't give a card to an OW student I can't say that about. And these people are more likely to come back for more extensive training since they are already comfortable in the water and have the skills required to start my AOW course or any other specialty I teach.

Then again I don't offer a standard AOW tour course. Not that yours is since I've not taken it or seen the standards for it but when divers come to me for AOW training they need to have buoyancy and basic skills down pretty well to get through what I require of them.

Hey Jim, not at all surprised you feel that way!

Allow me to expand on it.

Yes, I am in the business, and the market is what the market is. My personal OW course I limit class size, do more skills and challenge my students. To be honest my OW students I'm not as concerned with their skill, I KNOW they are when I certify.

It's others OW students I really push to the advanced course, except i don't consider it by any means a advanced course, to me I still think of it like OW2 from the old NAUI days, more exposure with the instructor. Frankly with 80% of other instructors students that I have had dive with me shortly after their certification they have HORRIBLE in water skill. Often you can see they want to still give it a shot but are close to dropping scuba because they know they aren't up to it. So I allow them some dignity by selling (a dirty word I know) a AOW class, then I teach them to be divers during, I also explain that ADVANCED isn't advanced by ay means, then I have converted them to lifestyle divers and sell them gear