Hose Routing Decision

[fireboat]

This is a very good thread with valid points.
As a South Florida OW diver who almost always stays above 100' (usually above 60' for that matter), I don't see the need for a long hose arrangement.
However, I do understand the point that is often presented where a panicked OOG diver may rapidly approach and grab the working primary while ignoring the secondary octo. In this case, the standard OW 22" hose is barely long enough for this.
So I have wondered what if my octo and my primary both were on 40" hoses? This way, if the OOG diver sees and grabs for the yellow hose of the octopus or my working primary, I am covered. I would have an angled adaptor on both. Is this a reasonable setup?
The hoses are not too long to be cumbersome and I could hold onto and try to control the OOG diver.
Honestly, I do not want to deal with a long hose or a bungeed secondary. That's just me.
I usually dive off my boat with the same friends, who I have trained with over the years, so I may not change anything. But I was just wondering. Thanks.

 

[Caveeagle]

My kids and I all dive the springs and have gear configured for cavern. I initially set them all up with 7' hoses for the primary, as this is how their instructor planned to train them for OW/AOW/Cavern. They are all pretty comfortable diving this this configuration. I can say the 7' hose tends to cause an issue with set-up/ tear down. They seem to dropped on the ground/deck more than I would like.

I can say, that I recently converted my son to a 5' hose with a 90* swivel. This seems to be a good compromise for his body size. It allows him to continue with the reg hose routing he is used to and has worked pretty to keep things under 'control'.

As tbone said, body size has a lot to do with it. I cannot wrap a 5' hose around my thick midsection. I actually have a 9' hose that works better with my BM doubles, where the slack from a 7' hose has a hard time staying stowed.

 

[leadduck]

As a South Florida OW diver who almost always stays above 100' (usually above 60' for that matter), I don't see the need for a long hose arrangement.
However, I do understand the point that is often presented where a panicked OOG diver may rapidly approach and grab the working primary while ignoring the secondary octo. In this case, the standard OW 22" hose is barely long enough for this.

Certainly not long enough for swimming a distance like in a cave, but it's fine to take a few breaths before switching regulators and ascending in open water.

The point you mention in favour of the long hose usually goes that you have your alternative on a bungee on the neck and can switch to it quickly without using your hands if an OOA diver grabs your primary regulator. I think it's a weak one. Unlike in an S-drill, the OOA diver may approach you from the side or from below and pull your primary in that direction without unrolling the long hose, pulling away or obstructing your alternative regulator. In that particular situation (OOA diver grabs primary) I'd prefer a usual octo in a side pocket or octo holder, but not on the neck bungee.

If you read GUE's explanations for equipment configuration ( Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers ) carefully you'll see that their one and only argument for the long hose is to travel while air sharing.

Even here you have to consider that this setup was designed for the special needs of the WKPP; it's for exploring Florida's wide swimming caves that have few and short, if any, slightly narrow passages. But elsewhere, in many other overhead environments there are lots of siphons or long and tight constrictions, such as difficult wrecks or real cave exploration by speleologists. Once the environment becomes difficult, one diver breathing gas from a bottle that's tied to another diver is a silly idea. Buddy breathing just isn't on the menu. Redundant independent alternate gas for every diver is the only option, i.e. independent doubles with no bridge, or side mount. Sharing gas means handing over the bottle. Please see these beautiful pictures : Tauchhöhlen in D Fotos Wimsener Höhle

 

[Caveeagle]

Certainly not long enough for swimming a distance like in a cave, but it's fine to take a few breaths before switching regulators and ascending in open water.

The point you mention in favour of the long hose usually goes that you have your alternative on a bungee on the neck and can switch to it quickly without using your hands if an OOA diver grabs your primary regulator. I think it's a weak one. Unlike in an S-drill, the OOA diver may approach you from the side or from below and pull your primary in that direction without unrolling the long hose, pulling away or obstructing your alternative regulator. In that particular situation (OOA diver grabs primary) I'd prefer a usual octo in a side pocket or octo holder, but not on the neck bungee.

If you read GUE's explanations for equipment configuration ( Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers ) carefully you'll see that their one and only argument for the long hose is to travel while air sharing.

Even here you have to consider that this setup was designed for the special needs of the WKPP; it's for exploring Florida's wide swimming caves that have few and short, if any, slightly narrow passages. But elsewhere, in many other overhead environments there are lots of siphons or long and tight constrictions, such as difficult wrecks or real cave exploration by speleologists. Once the environment becomes difficult, one diver breathing gas from a bottle that's tied to another diver is a silly idea. Buddy breathing just isn't on the menu. Redundant independent alternate gas for every diver is the only option, i.e. independent doubles with no bridge, or side mount. Sharing gas means handing over the bottle. Please see these beautiful pictures : Tauchhöhlen in D Fotos Wimsener Höhle

Leadduck, I read your post twice and am still a little unsure what your point is. Using a 7' hose is not just for traveling through restrictions. In either a lights out or zero vis situation, both divers need to maintain touch contact with the line (and each other). This would be nearly impossible without a longer hose.

At least in North FL, diving independent BM doubles seems to be rare. And even then, you cannot hand off a tank, so you still need a long hose to effectively donate air.

 

[leadduck]

Leadduck, I read your post twice and am still a little unsure what your point is. Using a 7' hose is not just for traveling through restrictions. In either a lights out or zero vis situation, both divers need to maintain touch contact with the line (and each other). This would be nearly impossible without a longer hose.

Let me put it this way: if the conditions of the overhead environment are rather benign with few restrictions and rare zero vis situations then buddy breathing with a long hose is a viable option. Buddy breathing with a short hose isn't, totally agree.
In more difficult situations however with many siphons, long narrow passages to squeeze through, strong currents, zero vis all the time, ... buddy breathing is not a safe option no matter how long the hose. Alpine speleologists are like a team of solo divers, each with his own redundant air supply. Their hoses are short. Everyone may have his personal setup, no need to standardize in the team. Very different from DIR.
So I'm not saying long hose or DIR is bad, I think it's just a special solution for Florida's caves, Cenotes, and similar places. For open water on the one side as well as for more difficult caves or wrecks on the other side, other setups have their advantages.

 

[Patoux01]

So I'm not saying long hose or DIR is bad, I think it's just a special solution for Florida's caves, Cenotes, and similar places.

Funny. I know quite a few guys that use LH in places that most of the "alpine speleologists" of our region wouldn't even think of going through...

I still haven't found a moment where my long hose was a disadvantage compared to other possibilities. I have had a few where other setups were a PITA though.

 

[Caveeagle]

I an not a fan of rigid standardization either. When I was trained, the Hogarthian configuration was recommended, but not required. ..A 7' Long hose for cave diving was required.

It seems like there are roots of Hogarthian in current DIR standards, and both use a long hose on the right 1st stage, but they do not have the same meaning.