Horse Collar

[captain]

The D rings of the chest strap don't need to be in the center of your chest, you just need the end of the strap to be accessible so you can pull to release it. I route it up and out of the neck a few inches so I don't have to reach under the BC to find it.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The PRAM clears the Voit Snug Pack by a nano-hair.

N

It clears by so little that it is valve dependent - some will and some won't but either way, I would not use one if your chrome is perfect as it probably won't stay that way.

That said, a larger 7.25" diameter tank (AL 80, etc) will give you a bit more clearance, but would not be "vintage".

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It has been addressed indirectly but not specifically stated. You dress so that what you need to drop or remove first goes on last. So it is horsecollar, scuba unit, then weights as you would drop weights, then the scuba unit, and then still have the horse collar on for ascent or surface floatation.

It is a little clumsy at times as the horsecollar can get in the way of putting on the tank and in turn the tank can make it interesting putting on the weight belt, but it is safer that way.

 

[Nemrod]

I use a type of clear tape, polyurethane material such as used for paint protection on automobiles. It prevents the chrome from being damaged. A 7.25 tank does give all the needed clearance but my vintage Snug Pack will not accept a 7.25 tank.

You can see the protective tape here:

N

 

[captain]

You can use a heat gun to bend the pac a little for more clearance but it won't work on the later pacs that were thicker and hollow inside.

 

[rstofer]

Thanks for all the photos and great ideas. I'll start experimenting in the near future.

As to the selected horse collar, it is inexpensive but it also has the dump valve at the upper right shoulder. This would save me from having to modify a collar like Captain did.

With a weight harness, it will need to go on first. There is no problem dumping the weights, they are retained by a ripcord scheme. At the moment, the rig is adjusted so that the top of the weight pockets are approximately at the top of my hip bone. This is the DUI recommended adjustment. I suspect I will want to raise them somewhat when I lose the stainless steel backplate.

Yes, the chrome on my RAM is beautiful. Even the satin finish on the Mistral is in very good condition. I certainly don't want to rub them against a backpack. The PRAM has more of an 'industrial' satin finish. It's been around and shows it.

Now I have an idea of how high to mount the tank and, by extension, how to adjust the harness.

If the Freedom Plate is ever available again, I might just buy one. I'm kind of tracking developments but it doesn't look like there will ever be large quantities available. I guess the last batch was sold before they were even built.

Richard

 

[captain]

My baseline tank height is so that while standing on land I can tilt my head back as far as I can and just barely touch the regulator. Once in the water it depends on if you are using a crotch strap to keep the tank from riding up or not. If you are not using a crotch strap you may have to place the tank lower. Basically I don't want the regulator bumping the back of my head when tilted back in whatever position I am in..

 

[Walter]

When I rigged the DA AM to an Al 50 and a US Divers backplate, I realized I can't get the backplate very far down before the bottom hits the boot. If I set it so that the backplate just hits, it doesn't appear that there will be enough room between the rear surface of the backplate and the regulator once I add the Phoenix nozzle. This may be unique to the US Divers backplate but it was seem that I have to mount the backplate so that the top edge of the handle is below the regulator can.

Are you using the referenced backplate with a PRAM? If so, where is the lower edge of the regulator with respect to the top of the backplate?

Richard

Why are you using a boot on an AL 50?

No, I don't use a modern back pack, I have no idea what the make and model might be, I'll try to remember to look at it when I get home. I'm also not using a PRAM.

 

[rstofer]

Why are you using a boot on an AL 50?

Beats me! All of my tanks have boots. I would like to think the octagon shape keeps them from rolling around in the car but we all know that doesn't work.

The boots do protect the ceramic tile on the kitchen counter when I set up the tanks and regs for 'display'.

Richard

 

[Nemrod]

Beats me! All of my tanks have boots. I would like to think the octagon shape keeps them from rolling around in the car but we all know that doesn't work.

The boots do protect the ceramic tile on the kitchen counter when I set up the tanks and regs for 'display'.

Richard

I like boots on my tanks because they don't roll around and they don't bang the crap out of my boat.

The additional length of the PRAM does as many find out cause some issues with various back plates. I discovered this as did several other of the PRAM beta testers. I have made tons of posts all over with pictures showing various ways to set a plate with a PRAM, which plates work and which don't, which wings work and which don't etc. It makes my head hurt all in all. Most of the blown/molded backpacks will not work, a modern bent plate will not work except with certain modifications, the Freedom Plate works fine, the Oxy Ultra Light plate works, a vintage Navy harness will work, some vest/jacket type BCs with the integrated tanks mount such as Luis uses will work excellent.

Sometimes to use a plate with a PRAM you must lower the plate and lengthen the shoulder loops among other mods. It gets kind of complicated to make a generic answer to what will and will not work, several of us who use a wing/BP/Hog with our PRAM have come to similar conclusions and similar solutions. For use with a horsecollar either a modified plate or the "ergonomic" type plastic plates will sometimes work. Using a 7.25 inch tank often provides the extra room need to eliminate interference. I made a custom band for my Snug Pack to accept 7.25 aluminum tanks and it works with the PRAM.

Sorry it is so complicated. You wouldn't think a half inch or three quarters inch would cause such trouble sometimes. My answer, I use my PRAM with a modern Oxy wing and a Freedom or Oxy plate Ultra Light and I use my non Phoenix double hose regulators with everything else.

Captain has made a custom plate for himself with a cutout as was done in the famous dog bone plate from Healthways. I cut a few sample plates last summer but lost interest in the project when I was gifted with a Freedom Plate.

N

 

[rstofer]

I appreciate all of the suggestions and photos. In the end, I will make it work!

At the moment, the Mistral is destined for double 50s with a separate 1st stage on the left post (turn the manifold backwards). This is the only way I can get IP for a BC or octo. I also plan to use the Mistral with the horse collar, cotton harness and a weight harness - just because I want to. I am anxious to get this reg in the water!

The RAM will be used with either a cotton harnes and some kind of backpack. I don't have the solution yet but the suggestions will lead to one. Clearance probably won't be a problem as this is a stock RAM. I will pay attention to rubbing of the beautiful chrome.

The PRAM will be used with a modern BP/W. This is the simple solution and the Phoenix provides all the ports a modern diver could need.

That's the plan. Now let's see how it really works out...

Thanks again to all!

Richard