Horrible Customer Service Experience

[Sat Diver]

Simply based on the responses and questioning by DSS I am sure I will not be purchasing any of their products anytime soon.

Some people are good at what they do or very technically smart but do not understand business. Win a battle but at what cost?

That is your decision, but you will deprive yourself of an amazing product.

I prefer to buy equipment made by people with little business sense who are very technically smart.

But thats just me.

I have found Tobin to be be a pleasure to deal with. He is not interested in being sweet to make a sale. He makes great gear, and is actually interested in the fact that you get what you need.

I feel bad that the OP had the experiences he did, but Tobins product is sterling, and he stands by it with great integrity.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

We of course attempted to resolve the matter privately. It was the OP who choose to "go public"

I've stated this several times already, but once again;

Throwing free parts at the problem would do nothing to solve it if the user is still convinced he is doing nothing wrong.

Th easiest short term solution would be to provide repairs and replacement parts free of charge, but that is almost certainly to lead to future problems for the customer.

True customer service IMO is actually solving the problem long term, so the customer is not repeatedly without operable gear.

All wings are subject to damage if mishandled, this thread alone has seen multiple divers report multiple similar problems with wings from multiple manufacturers.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

Handing out free bladders over and over with no change in how they are being used is insanity.

Tobin

Your goals, though admirable don't line up with the customers goals. They (customers) don't give a rats a$$ about long term solutions, for the most part they care about immediate gratification especially if they feel (rightly or not) that they have been short changed some how.

The goal of customer service is to maintain the customer relation so that they continue to purchase your product and to protect your reputation. At ~5,500 views of a thread labeled "Horrible Customer Service" I can't see how you achieved this.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Your goals, though admirable don't line up with the customers goals. They (customers) don't give a rats a$$ about long term solutions, for the most part they care about immediate gratification especially if they feel (rightly or not) that they have been short changed some how.

The goal of customer service is to maintain the customer relation so that they continue to purchase your product and to protect your reputation. At ~5,500 views of a thread labeled "Horrible Customer Service" I can't see how you achieved this.

Because most intelligent people realize how ridiculous many of the participants in the thread have been. I commend Tobin for keeping his cool while being repeatedly (and mildly) attacked when most would have told the attackers to **** off.

I will never think twice about buying Tobin's product.

 

[eelpout]

I coming late to this subject matter and I felt compelled to share my experience with backplate and wings. I have been diving a single tank BP/Wing for a travel BCD since 1998. I also sell and service them too. I have an old Halcyon Pioneer wing with two holes on the wing. They were both caused by boat crews taking my system off and treating it like all the rest of bc's, dropping them after they take it of the tank to switch them. In both cases the holes were situated where the plate pinched the wing to the deck of the boat. So I proudly wear patches on my wing to show and educate people how to take care of their gear. I have sold many BP/wing to people that travel all over the world. I always educate my customers on how to make sure that they don't drop their system and that they should make sure the people taking care of their gear know how to place the BP/wing on the ground properly. I always tell them to put the system down plate first. I also make sure to educate people that they should take apart their system when packing and to insure that the plate does not puncture the wing when packed. I actually make them viualize how airline people can throw their bags all over the place. I have never had a problem with my Twin tank wings because they always go on and come off separately from the the plate. I haven't had a hole in any on my twin tank wings from pinching yet.

 

[Cave Diver]

Your goals, though admirable don't line up with the customers goals. They (customers) don't give a rats a$$ about long term solutions, for the most part they care about immediate gratification especially if they feel (rightly or not) that they have been short changed some how.

His goals don't necessarily have to line up with the customers goals. Lets just assume for a minute that something the customer is doing is causing the damage. In the name of customer service, Tobin fixes the wing (by replacing the bladder for free). Two months from now, the customer wing is again damage. Does Tobin replace it for free again? If so, how many times does he do this in the name of customer service? If not, what it the magic number where he says enough is enough and you have to pay - 3? 5? 10?

Tobin provided a service and by all appearances he delivered. Unless there is a lifetime warranty on bladders, or the warranty covers any type of failure regardless of how it's caused, I don't really see where DSS owes the customer anything. There is not enough information to determine if the customer is at fault for the damage, but I think it's pretty clear the damage didn't occur at DSS either.

The goal of customer service is to maintain the customer relation so that they continue to purchase your product and to protect your reputation. At ~5,500 views of a thread labeled "Horrible Customer Service" I can't see how you achieved this.

I think he achieved it because based on the comments on the thread, quite a few people believe that Tobin provided a fair service at a reasonable cost given the circumstances of the situation. I'll admit that his delivery can be a bit gruff at times, but so can I. I've never seen him give bad advice to anyone asking questions and I've seen him go out of his way to answer questions for people who aren't his customers. But I wouldn't expect him to keep eating the cost of repairing bladders due to damage caused by things beyond his control.

Personally I wouldn't hesitate to consider DSS products the next time I'm in the market for something.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

His goals don't necessarily have to line up with the customers goals. Lets just assume for a minute that something the customer is doing is causing the damage. In the name of customer service, Tobin fixes the wing (by replacing the bladder for free). Two months from now, the customer wing is again damage. Does Tobin replace it for free again? If so, how many times does he do this in the name of customer service? If not, what it the magic number where he says enough is enough and you have to pay - 3? 5? 10?

The world is not black and white. He does not need to capitulate and keep sending replacements, not does he need to continue to be combative with the customer in a very public forum. There are a number of diplomatic options he could have taken to address this on the 1st page to contain it.

Tobin provided a service and by all appearances he delivered. Unless there is a lifetime warranty on bladders, or the warranty covers any type of failure regardless of how it's caused, I don't really see where DSS owes the customer anything. There is not enough information to determine if the customer is at fault for the damage, but I think it's pretty clear the damage didn't occur at DSS either.

I agree 100%

I think he achieved it because based on the comments on the thread, quite a few people believe that Tobin provided a fair service at a reasonable cost given the circumstances of the situation. I'll admit that his delivery can be a bit gruff at times, but so can I. I've never seen him give bad advice to anyone asking questions and I've seen him go out of his way to answer questions for people who aren't his customers. But I wouldn't expect him to keep eating the cost of repairing bladders due to damage caused by things beyond his control.

Personally I wouldn't hesitate to consider DSS products the next time I'm in the market for something.

I disagree. I have read enough of Tobin's advice and feedback on his products (as have you) that I already have a solid opinion of him (very positive on the technical aspects, slightly negative on the diplomatic end). The damage is to the new reader who see's the headline and reads the first page or so. They may very well perceive a lack of support and avoid DSS and flee to the "other guys" who are probably worse in the customer support issues, but don't confront the customer publicly. Being a bit gruff is not a positive attribute in the sales arena.....

 

[Pullmyfinger]

This thread has so many views because most people here realize that a thread in the DSS sub forum including the words "horrible" and "customer service" doesn't add up.

Most will read it and conclude that it's unfounded.

This isn't a sports bar................it's not free wing day.

-Mitch

 

[ScubaSteve]

The world is not black and white.

Apparently it is for many people participating in this thread. What you guys are asking Tobin to do is to give away all of his profit just because you say he should. Tobin (DSS) should back their product and repair or replace said product when the issue was cause by themselves. They should not be asked to give away free products and services whenever a customer does something to ruin their product.

..........not does he need to continue to be combative with the customer in a very public forum...............

We must be reading different threads because Tobin has been anything BUT combative. He has been stating facts and/or opinions in a calm and polite manner. That does not translate into Combative in my opinion.

 

[Scared Silly]

Here is the real moral to the story which is really consumerism 101: When getting a replacement or even new from the mfg check it out thoroughly before using it to insure that the product has no defect in it. Once you dive it off the boat it is yours and you are responsible for it including meeting the warranty requirements.

I can see that the OP is bummed because they just replaced one bladder and now the replacement has a problem. However, the OP admitted that they failed to properly inspect it before using it whereas the mfg stated they did before shipping it. Forgetting to inspect it as the consumer is understandable we all just expect things to work. And the vast majority of the time they do. Every once in a while both the consumer and mfg get wake up calls - in this case OP got the call. Unfortunately, it is now an OP said - mfg said situation in which no one will win. This thread is quite evident of that.

 

[TSandM]

This thread has so many views because most people here realize that a thread in the DSS sub forum including the words "horrible" and "customer service" doesn't add up.

Too true!

No matter what you do in business, somebody isn't going to like it. I remember talking to someone who was really unhappy with Tobin's customer service. What he was unhappy about was that Tobin wouldn't sell him gear until he knew a little bit about what the customer was going to do with it, and once he learned that, he felt the gear the customer wanted wasn't the most suitable for the purpose, and wanted to steer him to something else. The customer thought it was infuriating that Tobin wouldn't sell him the "wrong" gear. On the other hand, it's precisely that which has made me steer people to DSS for the last six years. I was so impressed that he wouldn't sell a rig to one of our best friends, until she got him the information he wanted to make sure that she was getting gear that would work for her and with which she would be happy.

I suspect that, for every customer who is unhappy with DSS, though, there are at least ten more who are extremely satisfied, myself included.