Horizontal Obsession

[Gombessa]

The moral of the physics lesson is control your buoyancy with pin-point precision. Now if you wanted to say that maintaining a horizontal attitude at all times buffers small changes in buoyancy and permits a diver who is not, for whatever reason, able to quickly establish and maintain buoyancy with pin-point precision to perform better than they might be able to otherwise ... that would be accurate.

That's exactly what I was trying to say, it aids in control. Sorry if it was hard to comprehend (and yes, no one has ever accused me of having pinpoint buoyancy control, so it helps me a lot!).

 

[Scott L]

Feel free not to agree or suggest that new divers flare when they accidentally find their way up to the surface.

It is my opinion newer divers have a more difficult time with controlling ascents due to their likely choice of a console mounted computer which is much more clumsy to view then a more thoughtfull wrist mounted computer/depth gauge.

Often, they simply do not realize the rate in which they are ascending while continually clipping & unclipping the apparatus, recovering it while dangling about or having to hold on to while also venting their BCD...

 

[Gilldiver]

It is my opinion newer divers have a more difficult time with controlling ascents due to their likely choice of a console mounted computer which is much more clumsy to view then a more thoughtfull wrist mounted computer/depth gauge.

Often, they simply do not realize the rate in which they are ascending while continually clipping & unclipping the apparatus, recovering it while dangling about or having to hold on to while also venting their BCD...

Actually, it has been my experience equipment has little, if anything to do with it, it is more that new divers/bad divers have not developed the patiences required to accurately control their buoyancy. They are looking for immediate feedback from the addition or release of air from the BC. As experienced divers know a small change of gas volume in the BC may require a few seconds for that change to over come the mass inertia of the diver/equipment bundle and the drag of moving through the water column.

So, they add too much or vent too much and get into a feed back loop. They also don’t know how to breath at a middle volume of their lungs so that a good breath in or out will allow for minor changes in column level.

As for "they simply do not realize the rate in which they are ascending," I will say that about 90% of all divers. Unless they are actively looking at an accurate gauge and timer at the same time or have some other method of reference they can easily be well above 60 feet/min ascending or descending and believe that are much slower.

 

[divad]

I mean, can you "swim" in a vertical direction if your body is in a horizontal position?

Yes......................

 

[divad]

I mean, can you "swim" in a vertical direction if your body is in a horizontal position?

But only up, so far.

 

[spectrum]

It is my opinion newer divers have a more difficult time with controlling ascents due to their likely choice of a console mounted computer which is much more clumsy to view then a more thoughtfull wrist mounted computer/depth gauge.

Often, they simply do not realize the rate in which they are ascending while continually clipping & unclipping the apparatus, recovering it while dangling about or having to hold on to while also venting their BCD...

You're suggesting a gear change to address a technique issue. A console on a short bungee clipped to the left shoulder or on a retractor is instantly accessible.

If the console is not conveniently restrained or the diver does not know enough to use the instrument (analog or digital) then of course they will be at the mercy of their perception.

As to this whole thread the real objective is to be in control. That includes your position and other factors that make a dive safe and enjoyable for the participants and environment. What constitutes control is scenario dependent. Sure the ideal is horizontal, no arms flailing and an undisturbed bottom. Personal adaptation, preferences and conditions can all dictate variations.

One of Plato's most interesting ideas was that of a Perfect Plane. Basically, he felt that everything that we see and experience is a copy, with the "idea" and "perfect" counterpart as existing in a perfect plane. For instance, if you take a straight edge and draw a line, it is not a perfect line or line segment. It has width, no matter how careful you are, and it is never absolutely straight. But to Plato, a perfect line did exist in the Perfect Plane, and this was where we got many or most of our intuitive thinking; a knowledge of the perfect plane from a period of time before we were born.

Do dive,
Pete

 

[Scott L]

Actually, it has been my experience equipment has little, if anything to do with it, it is more that new divers/bad divers have not developed the patiences required to accurately control their buoyancy. They are looking for immediate feedback from the addition or release of air from the BC. As experienced divers know a small change of gas volume in the BC may require a few seconds for that change to over come the mass inertia of the diver/equipment bundle and the drag of moving through the water column.

I will not argue about the lack of knowledge that adjustments of gas in lungs or BCD's is very common with newer divers. However, my main point was the difficulty that a console mounted computer adds for any diver attempting to remain in horizonal trim during any aspect of the dive or performing verticle ascents. For a diver to monitor their depth with a console system they must unclip and either contort their body position to view or at the very least crane their head downward theerby losing eye contact with buddies and the intended attraction of the dive...

As for "they simply do not realize the rate in which they are ascending," I will say that about 90% of all divers. Unless they are actively looking at an accurate gauge and timer at the same time or have some other method of reference they can easily be well above 60 feet/min ascending or descending and believe that are much slower.

That's exactly my point. Should they utilize a wrist mounted depth gauge frequent checks are very easy. With console systems the process of checking is much more involved as the diver must juggle the console and the exhaust hose with verticle ascents or the exhaust hose and the pressure release string on the BCD...

 

[Scott L]

You're suggesting a gear change to address a technique issue. A console on a short bungee clipped to the left shoulder or on a retractor is instantly accessible.

If the console is not conveniently restrained or the diver does not know enough to use the instrument (analog or digital) then of course they will be at the mercy of their perception.

As to this whole thread the real objective is to be in control. That includes your position and other factors that make a dive safe and enjoyable for the participants and environment. What constitutes control is scenario dependent. Sure the ideal is horizontal, no arms flailing and an undisturbed bottom. Personal adaptation, preferences and conditions can all dictate variations.

One of Plato's most interesting ideas was that of a Perfect Plane. Basically, he felt that everything that we see and experience is a copy, with the "idea" and "perfect" counterpart as existing in a perfect plane. For instance, if you take a straight edge and draw a line, it is not a perfect line or line segment. It has width, no matter how careful you are, and it is never absolutely straight. But to Plato, a perfect line did exist in the Perfect Plane, and this was where we got many or most of our intuitive thinking; a knowledge of the perfect plane from a period of time before we were born.

Do dive,
Pete

I respectfully wholeheartedly disagree. See my post above. I am not attempting to reinvent the wheel here. GUE-Fundememtals or UTD Essentials classes are all about honing spot-on control. Should a diver show up for class with a console system the first action the instructor will take will be to replace with a loaner SPG and wrist mounted depth gauge....

 

[BDSC]

I will not argue about the lack of knowledge that adjustments of gas in lungs or BCD's is very common with newer divers. However, my main point was the difficulty that a console mounted computer adds for any diver attempting to remain in horizonal trim during any aspect of the dive or performing verticle ascents. For a diver to monitor their depth with a console system they must unclip and either contort their body position to view or at the very least crane their head downward theerby losing eye contact with buddies and the intended attraction of the dive...



That's exactly my point. Should they utilize a wrist mounted depth gauge frequent checks are very easy. With console systems the process of checking is much more involved as the diver must juggle the console and the exhaust hose with verticle ascents or the exhaust hose and the pressure release string on the BCD...

I don't find this to be the case at all. I have a console system that is on a retractable lanyard and clipped to my bc. It takes me all of about 3 seconds to grab my computer and check depth, pressure, or whatever. Doesn't matter what position I am in it's really pretty easy.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It is my opinion newer divers have a more difficult time with controlling ascents due to their likely choice of a console mounted computer which is much more clumsy to view then a more thoughtfull wrist mounted computer/depth gauge.

Not sure the choice of equipment has much to do with it. Newer divers have a more difficult time controlling ascents because it's a skill that takes some practice to get right ... and they haven't had time yet to get enough practice.

As for the console ... my first set of gear included a console and my instructor showed me how to use a retractor to route it across my torso and clip it to my right shoulder D-ring in such a way that I could see it hands-free ... especially when swimming horizontally ... all I had to do was look down.

Often, they simply do not realize the rate in which they are ascending while continually clipping & unclipping the apparatus, recovering it while dangling about or having to hold on to while also venting their BCD...

Like any other skill ... you first learn to perform the skill, then you learn how to perform it well, then you learn how to perform it well while doing something else. All that takes practice ... experienced divers using a console or any other configuration will be able to control their ascent rate by using visual cues in the water ... or even simply by feeling pressure changes in their ears.

Newer divers need time and practice to be able to understand what their senses are telling them ... none of us can perform these skills without some form of "feedback" ... the key is getting enough practice to be able to interpret what your senses are telling you.

None of that has anything to do with gear ... as a certain group is fond of saying, you don't use equipment to fix a skills issue ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)