Horizontal Ascents...

[The Chairman]

I specifically requested that OFFGASSING NOT be brought up... but no, you just had to do it. THE REAL ANSWER IS...

NO ONE KNOWS SQUAT ABOUT WHAT POSITION IS BETTER FOR OFFGASSING.

Most doctors that I have queried say that ANY benefit resulting from any of various positions would be QUITE small and statisically irrelevant to the whole.

There is NO empirical data (to mine or Uncle Pug's knowledge), only a lot of hooey, I mean theory. So while I can see that a horizontal ascension might have some benefit in other ways, I am confident that no one knows that it helps offgassing.

Anyone says different is just itching for a fight!

:tease:

 

[AquaTec]

well staying off the topic of off gassing, and just taking your word for it here.

to me that would be the main benifit in ascending horizontal.
again just the main benifit, there are other minor benifits, but that could be said about vertical ascents.

a belly up ascent, I guess it would be considered horizantal, I would love to see it

 

[roakey]

jeffsterinsf once bubbled...
Thinking about it, it makes some sense. Blood doesn't flow uphill from your legs too well, muscle contraction "squeezes" it back (as I recall, not a biophysiologist here). Being horizontal would help this situation. No idea if this is true, or if so, what the magnitude of the effect is.

Anyone with more knowledge here able to comment?

Get yourself a cup of coffee, no make that a Grande AND lunch, then sit back and read:

http://www.scubaboard.com/t4933/s.html

Roak

 

[GeekDiver]

I like to go up feet first. That way the boats will see my fins breach and head the other way and you still have a good view of all the fish you just left behind

 

[roakey]

Feet first causes all the Nitrogen bubbles to accumulate in your feet. When you get on board you can stomp around to break them up, leading to faster outgassing.

Supposedly a true story on some board years ago...

Roak

 

[Rick Murchison]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
Put it out here on the table:

HOW does ascending vertically in boat infested waters make any difference in the out come at all?

Assertions that it is the only safe way to do it aside... let's get some factual examples on here.

I think we're mixing things up here a bit - there isn't a whole lot you can do in "boat infested waters" (the vision I have is speedboats and sea-doos galore racing about with abandon and little regard for others) beyond diving under a flag and float, or better yet from a boat with someone aboard with a 30.06...
And there are times and conditions - Wakulla Springs is one - where a horizontal ascent all the way to the surface is not only ok, it's the best ascent to make. But... the horizontal ascent to the surface is not the end-all and be-all of ascents, and there are situations where it is definitely a very bad idea - typical Gulf diving is a case in point. Normally we're diving on a fixed site - wreck or artificial reef, with a fair sized group - 6 or more buddy teams. There is usually some current, often quite a bit, and frequently a confused sea with the predominent swell going one way, the current another, and the wind a third. Put all this together and what you get is akin to diving in a washing machine, with a boat awaiting you that is heaving as well as pitching, and swinging unpredictably, sometimes quite a ways. Therefore, between the safety stop and the ladder, you have a few hundred tons of boat with sharp thingies under it that's moving about erratically that it'd be a real good idea to avoid. Often there is enough current that the "no-swim" line rigged from the anchor line to the stern is used, but that line is frequently swept under the boat, so even using it one must maintain eye contact with the boat or run the risk of a very unpleasant surprise.
Personally I don't care how a diver does that (maintain the watch on the boat) so long as they do it. Most folks find it most convenient to make the final ascent in essentially a vertical position; I'm comfortable horizontal but on my back and usually use that swimming position. But I have found that I am unable to adequately view the entire field of action from the "Right" position (presented in the video), nor do I know anyone who can. Safety demands something better.
Now before you deflect the argument to modifications on the kind of diving we do, let's first agree that under the circumstances I've outlined, which is common 'round here, a "horizontal ascent" to the surface is impractical, and likely dangerous. After that, we welcome any suggestions for improvement in getting a dozen or more divers on a fixed site in a washtub.
Rick

 

[Uncle Pug]

NetDoc once farted:
NO ONE KNOWS SQUAT ABOUT WHAT POSITION IS BETTER FOR OFFGASSING.

So you prefer the Squat for offgassing :warhammer

 

[Uncle Pug]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...
I think we're mixing things up here a bit


And there are times and conditions - Wakulla Springs is one - where a horizontal ascent all the way to the surface is not only ok, it's the best ascent to make.

with a boat awaiting you that is heaving as well as pitching, and swinging unpredictably, sometimes quite a ways. Therefore, between the safety stop and the ladder, you have a few hundred tons of boat with sharp thingies under it that's moving about erratically that it'd be a real good idea to avoid.

Now before you deflect the argument to modifications on the kind of diving we do, let's first agree that under the circumstances I've outlined

Rick, mixing things up is the Scuba Board way....

I posted a reply to your assertion that the divers in the 5thD video were not ascending in a safe manner. Now you want to switch gears and discuss ascents in your area done the way you do them. What does that have to do with the 5thD divers ascending in Lake Cresent to demonstrate how a horizontal ascent is done... even you say that you do horizontal ascents at times. Why try to diss them? Makes no sense.

1. They are diving in an area where there are no boats, no waves, no wind or any of the other stuff you want to throw into the mix to confuse the issue. They are diving in conditions that will allow a simple demonstration video to be made without distraction.

2. We don't ascend right underneath our own boat so we don't have to worry about all that stuff you guys do. If you want to do it that way then fine... but we ascend away from the boat and let it pick us up if live or ascend near the anchor line and surface at the front of the boat and drift back to the swim step.

3. A few hundred tons of boat is not a boat... that is a ship or an exageration.

 

[AquaTec]

A QUICK QUESTION

DOES DIR REQUIRE A HORIZONTAL ASCCENT

 

[Uncle Pug]

Rick challenged:
Now before you deflect the argument to modifications on the kind of diving we do, let's first agree that under the circumstances I've outlined, which is common 'round here, a "horizontal ascent" to the surface is impractical, and likely dangerous. After that, we welcome any suggestions for improvement in getting a dozen or more divers on a fixed site in a washtub.

So I have to agree with you before we can continue... before I can make any suggestions for changes in the way you do things?

OK, I will agree that the way you do things is most likely dangerous given the circumstances you've outlined even though it is common 'round there.... and ascending horizontally without looking above you could make matters worse.

That is the best I can do... ascending close to a ship in motion is not safe.

As far as suggestions to improve your odds...
1) If the ship really is several hundred tons then it should have multiple live boats to retrieve divers who are ascending under dive markers and bring them back to the mother ship.

2) If it were really only an anchored boat then ascending well out in front (up current) and drifting back to the boat would be best. A tag line trailed of the stern with several ball floats isn't a bad idea so that divers can catch that and then move forward toward the stern rather than come alongside the boat.

3) If it is possible the boat should be live and pick the divers up as buddy pairs surface.

4) If conditions were too extreme then it would be better to call the dive off.

5) If the boat due to conditions or skipper inadequacies is cannot handle picking up that number of divers then go with fewer divers.

If it were me I would be changing the scenario and not trying to make up for it with a vertical ascent.... not that horizontal is the only way to go mind you... it is just that way you describe as common 'round here sounds far from safe to me.