Hopping my way to full cave...

[dewdropsonrosa]

Would you chalk it up to the content of the course being inadequate or the instruction not being done well?

 

[NothingClever]

Completed Rescue today with a local shop. I'm not sure what to think about this course, TBH other than doing rescue breaths in water, I don't feel that I actually learned much.

Dang....I wish I had known you were taking that course. A buddy of mine in Tampa just retired and is instructing full time. He was an 18D (Special Forces) medic and was previously in charge of the Combat Dive Qualification Course down in Key West. He’s got some depth in his skills and knowledge and is adaptive diver friendly. Sorry I missed out on hooking you up with him!

 

[Manatee Diver]

Would you chalk it up to the content of the course being inadequate or the instruction not being done well?

More of a content issue. The EFR and O2 provider course was below my (expired) level of training, so other than learning the current CPR protocol (as that seems to change every few years), otherwise much of it was review or in some cases disagreed with other training. Like under my training serious bleeds are only below scene safety in priority to the point that a victim with no pulse or breathing was a massive hemorrhage is triaged as dead/expectant.

The in-water stuff except for the rescue breathing on the surface a lot of the content was pretty duh, or covered in tech classes. Now I think a short course with the IUCRR guys would be interesting, like navigating minor restrictions like the lips or keyhole with an non-responsive diver. Doing gas changes with a breathing but non-responsive diver. Obviously if they are not breathing I'd probably just clip them to the mainline leaving it to IUCRR to do the recovery unless I saw the diver stop breathing.

Dang....I wish I had known you were taking that course. A buddy of mine in Tampa just retired and is instructing full time. He was an 18D (Special Forces) medic and was previously in charge of the Combat Dive Qualification Course down in Key West. He’s got some depth in his skills and knowledge and is adaptive diver friendly. Sorry I missed out on hooking you up with him!

Are you talking about Steve from Compressed Adventures? If so I've dove with him once at an event. Mostly it was a last minute thing. I got the Rescue elearning as part of the Suunto settlement, and I saw my local shop had it posted so I joined at the last minute.

 

[dewdropsonrosa]

The in-water stuff except for the rescue breathing on the surface a lot of the content was pretty duh, or covered in tech classes.

This is the same type of issue I had with my Solo class this week. There was nothing in that course that I couldn't already do blindfolded during an airshare scenario. Recreational classes are targeted to an audience with different needs.

 

[tmassey]

You know, most people take rescue long before, say, trimix or cave…

It’s funny: for me, rescue was one of the best classes I’ve ever taken. of course, I took it long before any technical training. But the parts that I really liked about it aren’t necessarily things that would be covered in technical training. How do identify and respond to a panicked diver, underwater search for a missing diver, things like that.

Or, maybe it’s a case of it’s not the class, it’s the instructor. Who knows.

And rescue is probably the class I would most like to assist with. Playing a panic diver is always fun... I will do my best to drown you…

 

[tmassey]

This is the same type of issue I had with my Solo class this week. There was nothing in that course that I couldn't already do blindfolded during an airshare scenario. Recreational classes are targeted to an audience with different needs.

Yeah, I had more than one instructor tell me that there was virtually nothing in the solo class that wasn’t in cave. But I needed the piece of plastic, so I took the class. But I think your point is dead on: those are recreational classes. The audience is different.

Thinking about it more, rescue was also the first time where I was directly taking steps to be responsible for someone else. It wasn’t as eye-opening an experience as some of my subsequent classes have been, but it really was a significant change in perspective. But again, I was taking it at a much more skill appropriate point!

 

[jlcnuke]

You know, most people take rescue long before, say, trimix or cave…

It’s funny: for me, rescue was one of the best classes I’ve ever taken. of course, I took it long before any technical training. But the parts that I really liked about it aren’t necessarily things that would be covered in technical training. How do identify and respond to a panicked diver, underwater search for a missing diver, things like that.

Or, maybe it’s a case of it’s not the class, it’s the instructor. Who knows.

And rescue is probably the class I would most like to assist with. Playing a panic diver is always fun... I will do my best to drown you…

I thoroughly enjoyed my rescue class (as much as you can enjoy something that is physically and mentally tasking), and felt I learned a lot. I've used the skills I learned since then as well (though not perfectly and not as quickly as I should have, but it worked out). I've also moved into technical training and am a certified self-reliant diver and I find many of the skills overlap, but they aren't taught in the same mindset is my experience so far.
Tech is about being a good team (usually) and the emphasis is good or great skills, great understanding of redundancy, great planning, and good communication -while knowing how to deal with problems. Solo/self-reliant is about having good technique, good skill, great redundancy, great planning, and really knowing how to deal with problems. Rescue class was about having good communication and knowing how to deal with problems.

Each set of classes (or class types in this case) have merits. If you aren't going to be a tech diver, rescue gives you a perspective you won't get anywhere else as a diver really. If you wanna go 'more than normal rec", then the solo or self-reliant course is a great avenue to give you a lot of information about how to be a good diver on your own and how to plan/handle things. Those same considerations are present in tech-diving, but you get them more in-depth and to a greater extent as you progress into various levels of technical diving I think (still working on that set myself).

 

[Manatee Diver]

You know, most people take rescue long before, say, trimix or cave…

Now you tell me.

It’s funny: for me, rescue was one of the best classes I’ve ever taken. of course, I took it long before any technical training. But the parts that I really liked about it aren’t necessarily things that would be covered in technical training. How do identify and respond to a panicked diver, underwater search for a missing diver, things like that.

Or, maybe it’s a case of it’s not the class, it’s the instructor. Who knows.

I don't think it was the instructor, we hit all the beats. But I think tech training brought a different mindset. At one point the instructors all went to discuss the roles for the scenarios coming up. And we (the students) all circled up and chatted, more than one person complained about the critique by the instructor, I'm sitting there thinking "If I can get through a debrief with Chris with less than 5 minutes of critique, then that was successful dive." And then you have the post dive debrief on non-instruction dives, I did that with myself and changed how I approached the scenarios, like not removing my mask or reg until I have the "victim's" weights out, as being able to put my head underwater meant that I could see the weight pouch instead of groping around blind like many of the students were doing.

Lots of little things like that, a lot of tech typically involves building a thinking diver and buddy awareness, which is the same thing that rescue emphasizes. At least that was my takeaway from the class.

Other than perhaps taking the search and recovery class, I really think I've reached the end of my recreational training. Pretty much the only things I have left, even if they have a recreational cross over, I want to take them from a tech instructor like drysuit and DPV.

As an aside when I played the unresponsive diver on one scenario, the students "rescuing" me complained that it was hard to get me out of my rig with all the hoses and straps. I was like "Be glad I didn't show up with my sidemount rig." Of course I was a little snarky because he dunked my head in the water several times, including once where I had to stop the scenario to spit up sea water I breathed in.

 

[jlcnuke]

Now you tell me.



I don't think it was the instructor, we hit all the beats. But I think tech training brought a different mindset. At one point the instructors all went to discuss the roles for the scenarios coming up. And we (the students) all circled up and chatted, more than one person complained about the critique by the instructor, I'm sitting there thinking "If I can get through a debrief with Chris with less than 5 minutes of critique, then that was successful dive." And then you have the post dive debrief on non-instruction dives, I did that with myself and changed how I approached the scenarios, like not removing my mask or reg until I have the "victim's" weights out, as being able to put my head underwater meant that I could see the weight pouch instead of groping around blind like many of the students were doing.

Lots of little things like that, a lot of tech typically involves building a thinking diver and buddy awareness, which is the same thing that rescue emphasizes. At least that was my takeaway from the class.

Other than perhaps taking the search and recovery class, I really think I've reached the end of my recreational training. Pretty much the only things I have left, even if they have a recreational cross over, I want to take them from a tech instructor like drysuit and DPV.

As an aside when I played the unresponsive diver on one scenario, the students "rescuing" me complained that it was hard to get me out of my rig with all the hoses and straps. I was like "Be glad I didn't show up with my sidemount rig." Of course I was a little snarky because he dunked my head in the water several times, including once where I had to stop the scenario to spit up sea water I breathed in.

My BP/W rig was "too complicated" for one rescue class I assisted with, so I was not used as the "diver needing rescue" for the scenarios where the diver's rig had to be removed... Good to know that without plastic clips they can't get me out of my gear in the water.

 

[dewdropsonrosa]

Solo (which is recreational under SDI) is useful for Midwestern divers so that quarries will let us go out and play by ourselves. It's hard for me to rope most people into a few hours of hover practice, kick drills, and shooting bags... and I get it. Not a rec diver's idea of fun.

I'm not sure that it's as relevant for Florida-based divers, because it seems like most state and county parks disallow solo diving.