Honesty in a dishonest world

[jsquaredFL]

I am not sure if this is in the right forum and if it is not, I do apologize.

My question is simple, If you find someone misleading themselves about their level of training and certifications (either on the board or elsewhere) how do you handle that?

If you are the only one who knows, do you post it on the forum and say "hey, this person isn't who they say they are, or aren't trained to the level to which they attest." Do you let them advertise that they want to go diving with someone regardless and hope the person(s) who agree to go diving with them check their certification cards?

In an open water environment such as someone not having a night/limited visibility class this is perhaps not as big a deal as if you go cavern/cave diving with someone (arguably), though both situations pose dangers.

Do you always ask to see all the applicable certification cards of those you dive with before getting in the water with them? What happens if you are on the boat and the person left their cards in the car (as my wife and I do)

I guess, how would the members of this forum handle this type of situation.

Thanks

 

[Damselfish]

So, is this hypothetical or have you had a personal experience with this?

Training and certifications don't mean everything even if someone has them. Sometimes unfortunately they don't mean anything. If you don't know someone, or have some mutual friend to find out about someone, it would be prudent to talk, and start with an easy dive where it doesn't matter too much. It will be obvious pretty quickly, possibly even before the dive, what the real scoop is.

Would I out someone? I guess it all depends on the situation. If someone was being a real jerk & blowhard and I knew otherwise I might say something. Or if I thought there was a chance someone would fall for it and result in a dangerous situation. I might do a PM if that was appropriate. But my sense is, anyone like this tends to out themselves.

 

[jsquaredFL]

So, is this hypothetical or have you had a personal experience with this?

Training and certifications don't mean everything even if someone has them. Sometimes unfortunately they don't mean anything. If you don't know someone, or have some mutual friend to find out about someone, it would be prudent to talk, and start with an easy dive where it doesn't matter too much. It will be obvious pretty quickly, possibly even before the dive, what the real scoop is.

Would I out someone? I guess it all depends on the situation. If someone was being a real jerk & blowhard and I knew otherwise I might say something. Or if I thought there was a chance someone would fall for it and result in a dangerous situation. I might do a PM if that was appropriate. But my sense is, anyone like this tends to out themselves.

Sadly, Personal experience. I was thinking kind of the same thing. It seems to me that diving with someone who says they are cavern/cave certified and is not, could be an incredibly dangerous situation. As I am not certified for those environments I can only speak for open water situations where I know if I suspected during a dive that my buddy was not competent I would call the dive immediately. The situation when you are 1,000 feet into a cave system would be a little more complex than going up and doing a safety stop.

 

[DocWong]

Yes, I'm very picky with whom I dive with on a technical dive, and I certainly wouldn't attempt to do a technical dive before doing a recreational dive first. However, I'm much more liberal on easier recreational dives. If you're not comfortable with a particular dive, no matter what it is, then call it.

The water will be there next time. With more experience, it shouldn't take long to estimate what your buddie's experience and skills are.

In estimating who I'm diving with, I'll observe how aware he/she is of you and the environment, breathing rate, communication skills, trim, kicks and overall effort they expend in the water.

 

[ucfdiver]

Sadly, Personal experience. I was thinking kind of the same thing. It seems to me that diving with someone who says they are cavern/cave certified and is not, could be an incredibly dangerous situation. As I am not certified for those environments I can only speak for open water situations where I know if I suspected during a dive that my buddy was not competent I would call the dive immediately. The situation when you are 1,000 feet into a cave system would be a little more complex than going up and doing a safety stop.

I think typically you'll find the cave community is very tight knit, and it's nearly impossible to find a diver who hasn't dove with a friend of a friend of a friend that you can ask for as a reference.

 

[PerroneFord]

I think typically you'll find the cave community is very tight knit, and it's nearly impossible to find a diver who hasn't dove with a friend of a friend of a friend that you can ask for as a reference.

Well, not only that, but by the time you get to the back of the cavern, you generally have a VERY clear idea of a cavern/cave diver's skill. I've been in the water with some cavern certified divers that I wouldn't want to do an open water dive in Ginnie with. And by the same token, I've done some cavern dives with divers who weren't cavern cert but who's skill put me at ease.

Cards aren't everything, but for overhead diving, the training behind them has a lot of merit.

 

[jsquaredFL]

From what I have read here, the cave community does seem tight as was mentioned. I guess I was wondering if it was considered a civic duty or something along those lines to raise an alarm about something like that.

It's unfortunate that people would misrepresent themselves when it comes to something like that.

 

[Hetland]

Not a cave diver (probably never go that route), but I would want to know if I was about to do a cave dive with someone who was being dishonest about their training/experience. The two options that seem best to me would be:

1. Talk to the person who is being dishonest, and give them a chance to bow out on their own.
2. Send a pm to the person that is going to dive with them.

I would do #1 first, and switch to #2 if necessary. While I agree that cards are only worth the plastic they are printed on, this is a potentially dangerous situation, and I myself, would hate to have to live with myself if an accident happened, and I did nothing to prevent it beforehand.

-h

 

[DanBMW]

Unfortunately, I have learned that most certifications at the lower levels, up to and including Rescue Diver, don't mean much. It is a starting point and the only thing that makes a difference is experience or the number of dives. As far a cave certification, I wouldn't worry about it, as the community is so small, they will know.

 

[Ocean One]

Certification cards are like "credit cards". They are easier then heck to get. You can go beyond your limit and no one is going to say anything most of the time. If you do get in way over your head, more than just you usually suffers.