Honest question for you dive masters instructors out there

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I have never seen it, but have read that once in a blue moon the diver turns air on and the DM checking it turns it off. I assume this has happened simply because of the number of divers and DMs worldwide. On a tropical vacation it was just me and the DM. He jumped in with an empty tank and used my octo at depth for our ascent. And IMO he was a fine DM from whom I learned a lot, as I was almost one then myself. So anyone can make a mistake if they do something enough times. I don't like anyone touching my stuff. On another charter, the DM was doing the tank switches and I just figured OK, let him do his thing. He tightened my BC tank lock tighter than the instructions advise. Since, I have found it doesn't work quite as well and I've actually had a tank slip off and another slip down. Those tank locks are a hundred bucks. Having said that, I good solution to the air check thing may be for the DM to observe the diver breathing from the reg. a few times and checking the SPG, as we are all taught to do. This would be just before the diver jumps off the boat. No valve on/off mistakes. We are taught as divers AND as DMs that a certified diver is responsible for himself and his own equipment. But that may be in an ideal world and one that doen't contain lawsuits for everything. I have forgotten to turn on air a couple of times over the years, fortunately on shore dives. Perhaps I'm just a little more slack with that than when I'm jumping off a boat.
 
I've been a DM/PADI-Pro for well over a decade. I thought about what he was asking and have to admit (after some internal struggle) that I would be a bit agitated at someone asking to see my Black Card. I KNOW that any and all divers, in my care, should be able to see my certs on demand but... after some internal struggle, I cannot say that it wouldn't irk me.. just a little. That being said, it doesn't change the fact that a diver should be able to demand to see my certification, in much the same way, I demand theirs before they get on the boat. On the other hand, what do you think? That the dive op/shop owner met me at bar and asked me to stand on the boat and gave me a hat that says "Divemaster", just for chuckles?
 
I've been a DM/PADI-Pro for well over a decade. I thought about what he was asking and have to admit (after some internal struggle) that I would be a bit agitated at someone asking to see my Black Card. I KNOW that any and all divers, in my care, should be able to see my certs on demand but... after some internal struggle, I cannot say that it wouldn't irk me.. just a little. That being said, it doesn't change the fact that a diver should be able to demand to see my certification, in much the same way, I demand theirs before they get on the boat. On the other hand, what do you think? That the dive op/shop owner met me at bar and asked me to stand on the boat and gave me a hat that says "Divemaster", just for chuckles?

Do you carry your card with you at all times?

Since it is standard practice for a dive operator to require proof of certification for divers, divers expect to be asked for it and carry it with them when they sign up for a dive. In many cases, if they sign up for the dive at a shop and then head for the boat, they are not carrying the card when they get on the boat. When I go diving, it is pretty rare that I actually have any card with me, because all that was taken care of ahead of time.

It would be even more true of a DM. I have never heard of anyone asking a DM for proof of certification, because I guess just about everybody assumes that the same operator that asked to see their certification cards required the same thing of the DMs they hired before entrusting the safety and well-being of their customers to them. Of course, this might not be true, as was the case in the San Diego incident mentioned earlier, but that would be the case in almost all situations. Why, then, would a DM carry a card? If I were to ask a DM for proof of certification after we had gotten on the boat, I would be stunned if the DM was carrying that card. I know I wouldn't have it with me.
 
Herb,

It smells like you need to spend some time out there diving in a variety of environments. However .... if you want to see any professional's credentials you should be welcome to ask. Any respectable pro will be happy to flip out their card for you. In fact the ones who have the most experience will be more than happy to show you their card. Let's see ..... my instructor SDI/TDI Instructor card has # 125 on it. My card from PADI is 41733 I'm sure Capt. Franks is from the same era. Ask nicely and most anyone will be happy to show you their credentials.

I recall about 10 years ago when i got on a dive boat in California and they were doing card check etc. and the Capt. said to the DM "you dont need to see his card." To which i retorted --- "absolutely he does." I reminded the Capt that while he knew me by reputation he in fact had actually never dived with me nor had seen my certification cards. He appreciated my candor and helping him help his crew be even more dilligent.

Now .........might you have your log book handy ?

Cheers
JDS
 
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Herb,

It smells like you need to spend some time out there diving in a variety of environments. However .... if you want to see any professional's credentials you should be welcome to ask. Any respectable pro will be happy to flip out their card for you. In fact the ones who have the most experience will be more than happy to show you their card. Let's see ..... my instructor SDI/TDI Instructor card has # 125 on it. My card from PADI is 41733 I'm sure Capt. Franks is from the same era. Ask nicely and most anyone will be happy to show you their credentials.

I recall about 10 years ago when i got on a dive boat in California and they were doing card check etc. and the Capt. said to the DM "you dont need to see his card." To which i retorted --- "absolutely he does." I reminded the Capt that while he knew me by reputation he in fact had actually never dived with me nor had seen my certification cards. He appreciated my candor and helping him help his crew be even more dilligent.

Now .........might you have your log book handy ?

Cheers
JDS

actually JDS respectfully you really need to read both threads fully. The issue had nothing to do with my desire "to see anyone's card" that was a tongue in cheek reference to a desire to have proof of a DM credentials ( most commonly gained by observation of their actions and performance of their duties) the What it was about was that I observed several indicators which I already covered several times that indicated that I was not comfortable with the DMs abilities it doesn't matter if he was new , or forgetful or a 90 minute wonder who received his card as a gift. What matters is I was not comfortable with him and request nicely that he " not involve himself physically with my gear I am far from a person that knows it all and has nothing to learn but I am also far from an in experienced two times a year vacation diver. I am a cold water diver who logs on average of 4 to 6 dives a week in the gear that I was diving that day so I feel safe in saying I know my gear and how it is configured I am also a PSD with our local FD so I am accustomed to team diving and working with a tender as well as solo diving with the FD as well privately so I have a variety of dives in anything from blue water to black out mud diving.

I personally put a great amount of stock on personal responsibility and if it is wrong or broken I want it to be because I screwed up not someone that I don't know or trust. This is all that I was politely asking the DM that day. He would not abide my request so I felt no need to provide him with a tip at the end of the dive. This was the extent of the " confrontation " simply no tip until I wrote it up here and everyone shared their opinions and judgements

But thank you for your opinion of the issue at hand.

---------- Post added January 5th, 2013 at 07:28 PM ----------

On the other hand, what do you think? That the dive op/shop owner met me at bar and asked me to stand on the boat and gave me a hat that says "Divemaster", just for chuckles?
actually rob you weren't the DM in question but that was exactly what went through my head with the " DM" in question
 
So in another thread the general consensus from the DM folks out there was that I was a xx for not wanting a DM to touch adjust or mess with my gear Ok I can accept that as your opinion

so when I come in and book a trip you want to see my c-card and rightfully so because you don't know me and you want to protect yourself and ensure that I have the training and skill to do the dive. You never want to just take my word for it and rightfully so.

so with that in mind you also feel it is your responsibility to check , adjust or touch my gear right before i go in the water I may be able to accept that if I know you have the training and skill to do the job. So would you be offended if I asked to see your certification card, after all I shouldn't just take your word on the fact that your a DM should I?

if you demand to have the ability to do something to my gear that I asked you not to do shouldn't I verify that you are trained to have an opinion ?

until now I have never thought this would be an issue. If I was around folks that did not instill trust in their skills I avoided them and did it myself in fact almost all the DM s that I have encountered have been very good hardworking people that knew scuba and were interested in keeping everyone safe but when I encounter one that gives my pause should I not have the option of saying no thanks I have it with out making it a 10 page thread big deal

this is a real question I am not trying to be a donkey about this I want your opinion

thank you

I can tell you first hand having a title does not make an expert. I have seen policeman who could not shoot, I have heard VERY bad advice given by supposed dive professionals and I have witnessed gun smiths work on firearms only to have disaster happen after words.

The sad thing about life is that anymore peopole generally dont put alot in to their profession like they used too. People generally grumble they are underpaid (Most are for the cost of living anymore) and they dont care what happens to the service or product they are selling once quitting time rolls around. I do shake my head many times when Divemasters become divemasters knowing its a low paying if at all paying gig then get mad because people dont tip. I am in this for the sheer enjoyment of the sport and I like anyone else gladly take tips but I dont sit around at the bar at night complaining that I did not make a dime off the 12 people we took diving.

Now about your gear its a good question to ask up front before you pay the cash to request that your gear be handled by you and you only. If its not acceptable to you the answer then simply find another place to dive with. I dont mind people asking me for my credentials and I can provide them but the question is simple. PADI for example I can produce to you 1,000 page log and show you I have dove all over europe and pay someone to sign off on them. Problem is it would look authentic to you and most anyone else but it would be a lie. The only real evidence you can ever get of how qualified someone is to divemaster is simply to witness it first hand.
 
I generally don't mind the DM checking my tank valves. I understand the safety issue and appreciate they look out for me. I don't like any of the rest of my gear being adjusted however. I do appreciate if a DM looks at me and says something like, "I noticed that doesn't look right." and either I will fix it or explain why it is the way it is. Nothing wrong with that. We're all just friends. I don't mind help grabbing gear getting on and off the boat. I just like hooking up and adjusting my own gear. I don't feel the need to ask the DM for his card. That just seems vindictive to me. The only reason they really ask for ours is for legal liability reasons. I guess I'm pretty laid back :p
 
Better start asking the boat captains for their captains licenses too I guess. I'm pretty good at handling my gear should the DM prove to be a phony, but parking the boat may be beyond my skills depending on the size.

In the US, USCG licenses and any certificates of inspection are required to be prominently posted. So you don't have to ask, just look around.
 
Going back to my post about the DM tightening my tank lock too tight--I guess that wouldn't have happened if I had mentioned it to him beforehand. IF I remembered to do so. As a customer I never carried my card onto a boat. If I were to DM on a boat I wouldn't either. Good way to loose a card, and how much does a PADI replacement card cost now? I would think that all shop employees' cards/credentials should be available at the shop when a customer signs up, should the customer wish to check them.
 
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