Honest question for you dive masters instructors out there

[Herb-alaska]

So in another thread the general consensus from the DM folks out there was that I was a xx for not wanting a DM to touch adjust or mess with my gear Ok I can accept that as your opinion

so when I come in and book a trip you want to see my c-card and rightfully so because you don't know me and you want to protect yourself and ensure that I have the training and skill to do the dive. You never want to just take my word for it and rightfully so.

so with that in mind you also feel it is your responsibility to check , adjust or touch my gear right before i go in the water I may be able to accept that if I know you have the training and skill to do the job. So would you be offended if I asked to see your certification card, after all I shouldn't just take your word on the fact that your a DM should I?

if you demand to have the ability to do something to my gear that I asked you not to do shouldn't I verify that you are trained to have an opinion ?

until now I have never thought this would be an issue. If I was around folks that did not instill trust in their skills I avoided them and did it myself in fact almost all the DM s that I have encountered have been very good hardworking people that knew scuba and were interested in keeping everyone safe but when I encounter one that gives my pause should I not have the option of saying no thanks I have it with out making it a 10 page thread big deal

this is a real question I am not trying to be a donkey about this I want your opinion

thank you

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You want my opinion.... Your request to see a DM card provides evidence that you are clueless. Just as an OW or AOW card may really not "mean much"... we have also seem DM certs and even Instructor certs which also don't "mean much".... A card is not going to prove to you that the DM knows what they are doing.

As for your valve turning issue.... For the last 2 years or so.. my personal policy is: I will check people's valves. However, i will always return it to the position I found it. If I think they had it off or barely cracked... I will say something like.. i just checked your valve and I THINK it is "off (or barely open)." then I ask " Do you want me to fix it or do you want to take the tank off and check it yourself". I haven't had a situation arise where they say... "no leave it alone; i am fine with it in the position it is in; even though you say it is incorrect".

If the DM approaches the issue with a casual and professional and respectful attitude, there really should be little opportunity for people to be bumping heads. BTW, I don't even TOUCH those demonic rebreather devices...

 

[Herb-alaska]

You want my opinion.... Your request to see a DM card provides evidence that you are clueless. Just as an OW or AOW card may really not "mean much"... we have also seem DM certs and even Instructor certs which also don't "mean much".... A card is not going to prove to you that the DM knows what they are doing.

As for your valve turning issue.... For the last 2 years or so.. my personal policy is: I will check people's valves. However, i will always return it to the position I found it. If I think they had it off or barely cracked... I will say something like.. i just checked your valve and I THINK it is "off (or barely open)." then I ask " Do you want me to fix it or do you want to take the tank off and check it yourself". I haven't had a situation arise where they say... "no leave it alone; i am fine with it in the position it is in; even though you say it is incorrect".

If the DM approaches the issue with a casual and professional and respectful attitude, there really should be little opportunity for people to be bumping heads. BTW, I don't even TOUCH those demonic rebreather devices...

An attitude like this I can accept you give me the option. But it would never be an issue if you demonstrated you had a working knowledge of the gear or sport

 

[jar546]

You reserve the right to ask me and I would be happy to oblige just as you would be asked to verify that you are appropriately certified for the planned diving.

If you ask nicely not to touch your gear ahead of time, not a problem. I certainly will not. Does this include not touching your spear gun when you are getting out of the water? How about your fins or camera? At what point would you expect that we would assist you? What is acceptable to you?

If you are traveling and you are renting our tanks, whose tanks am I checking? Yours or ours? If they are ours, chances are that I did the VIP and rebuilt the valve you don't want me to touch.

Are you going to load your tanks on and off the boat by yourself?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[rick00001967]

So in another thread the general consensus from the DM folks out there was that I was a xx for not wanting a DM to touch adjust or mess with my gear Ok I can accept that as your opinion

not to throw fuel on the fire......i am also one of those divers who does not want crew handling my gear. i did not see your previous thread but i have seen crew throw dive bags around, drag regs through the sand, pile hundreds of pounds of gear on top of other gear etc or grab my second stage and fold it to shove it in a D ring when i have a clip right on it. of course i am one of those anal types who thinks no one can treat my stuff as well as i can. lol
btw....i have been around a couple of different cave divers and they are even worse. the one's i met don't want you going anywhere near their gear. and rightly so imo.

as far asking to see a DM's credentials......i personally have never felt the need to do that. although i see your point. but i think if i was concerned about the quality of the staff at a dive op i wanted to use, i would just use a different shop.

 

[Herb-alaska]

Jar if I had issue with you ensuring the safety of your boat , crew and other divers by verifying items like spear guns are safe I should not be allowed on your boat. All I simply asked was please don't touch my valve which I would be the only one affected if I screwed up. And yes I have always carried all my own gear to include my tanks weights etc. my issue was before I splash I was not 100 % sure he was not going to turn my already on tank off. And I am always polite (direct sometimes but I say please and thank you) except maybe when irritated on the Internet. My concern was because he described a side mount rig that he had on board last week to me in conversation and had no idea what it was, he did not understand that routing my primary 48 inch hose under my arm and up was a acceptable option, he was unable to launch a 22 foot boat and spent an inordinate amount of time talking about how he was DM. In general he was not familiar with gear other than the what he was accustomed to seeing and I was not comfortable with him.

 

[scubamarketing]

Better start asking the boat captains for their captains licenses too I guess. I'm pretty good at handling my gear should the DM prove to be a phony, but parking the boat may be beyond my skills depending on the size.

 

[Wookie]

I would be jazzed if someone ever gave a damn about the qualifications of the boat or crew. Air tests, CO monitor, vessel certificates, crew qualifications, etc. I probably spend over 10 grand a year to maintain that stuff and no one gives 2 craps. My competitors don't spend a tenth of what I do because they aren't inspected and they get away with charging more than I do. Ask away, I say.

 

[wedivebc]

Although I don't have much experience working as a DM on a boat (well a year or so) I was expected by my boss to check divers valves before they jumped in. He also wanted me to do it discreetly but if anybody challenged my right to check their equipment I was to refer them to the boat owner/captain. It was my right to do it not because of my c-card but because it was required by the boat owner. Although it never came to that I have very confidence that the owner would offer a full refund to any diver who did not want their gear touched. The boat owner was also a lawyer and involved himself very little in the divers activities as long as they had a card that they could dive they could do what they wanted once they hit the water but he also felt while they were on the boat we still had a responsibility to exercise due diligence.
If you don't agree with the boat's policy of checking your gear then you are free to find another boat. The DM is working under the authority of the Captain so if you are going to question anyone's credentials it should be his. It may not work out well for you though.

 

[g1138]

I don't like people to touch my gear, especially right before I splash in. Any time someone is holding my first stage before I go in, I take notice if they're fiddling. If I suspect they are, I ask if they're touching my air.

As a DM, I don't check people air until they have they're fully suited. If we were to do it before then, we'd be all over the boat checking over and over again as people finally got their gear half way, then fully assembled. So that's the reason for that. Most people are fully suited right before they go off the boat.

Once divers are suited up, I call out what I'm touching, then wait a second for a response. If there's no response I touch what I called out.
For instance I say, "I'm going to check your air" *wait 1 second*
No response, I fiddle with the air and say "your air is all the way on, take a breath to make sure". Then I make sure their gauge doesn't flutter when they take a breath.
If someone asks me not to touch their air, I don't touch their air.

I'm with you on this, I don't like others touching my gear. But as a DM, it is my job to be the safety line; especially considering in my local area, we're employed primarily as safety divers, NOT guides. If I'm going to touch your gear though, I will extend the courtesy of mentioning what I'm touching or altering. That's just me though.

If you keep having conflicts, keep in mind there is a way to treat this subject though (of altering one's job responsibilities). Be polite and courteous, and don't show off a hint of attitude.
Just from your one post, you seem pretty heated. I know some people who don't mean to sound like they're asking with malice, but with your post it just comes off that way (whether you intended to be neutral or not). Perhaps if there's been any heated discussions on the boat between you and a DM, it's in part because of a misunderstanding of what your neutral attitude sounds like or where you're coming from. Some people just sound like they're always trying to argue, when they're not.
So if that really is the case, you might want to ask a second opinion on how your worded questions sound.