Homebuilding a Scooter

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amtaher

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Location
egypt
# of dives
100 - 199
Folks
Im building a DPV and I need to have a good running time on it.
I am planning to use a 370 watt 24v 1700 rpm brushed DC motor with 11" dia/ 15" pitch propeller.( In photo)
Do you think it will give enough thrust and speed?
Or should I use a bigger (750-1000 watt) motor?
 

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Depends on how you're gonna use it. Single tanks, doubles, stage(s), no flow, heavy flow, short distance, long distance, etc
It will have 100 amps hour battery
I am concerened about speed vs running time.
For example if the 370 watt 15 amps will pull me to 30m/min ideally (6 hours) then the total distance is 10km
And the 750 watt 24v =31 amps (3 hours) will give 75m/min = 13.5km
Then for the same battery the 750 is much better
 
Depends on how you're gonna use it. Single tanks, doubles, stage(s), no flow, heavy flow, short distance, long distance, etc
I will be using it on a CCR, weighing nearly as 12L AL tank in water
 
Folks
Im building a DPV and I need to have a good running time on it.
I am planning to use a 370 watt 24v 1700 rpm brushed DC motor with 11" dia/ 15" pitch propeller.( In photo)
Do you think it will give enough thrust and speed?
Or should I use a bigger (750-1000 watt) motor?
I think you are going to find a 370watt motor "weak"
30m/min is very slow

Most commercial scooters are doing around 80+m/min now. If you attempted to run your motor at full power for hours and hours - and you will need to achieve 30m/min. Then you are likely to melt the brushes or the board. I would definitely go up to the 750w motor but not run it at full power - so it wont get as hot, wont lose efficiency and is less likely to burn up a winding, the brushes, or anything else.

What kind of battery are you using? How are you controlling the speed?
 
You might want to "back" into the decision. I don't know what manufacturing capabilities you have but if you are using some off the shelf items (10" PVC pipe for example) to build the body, then that may be the deciding factor. If the larger motor or battery will not fit into the case you have, the decision is made for you. I would suggest you work on the housing design first, see what is available/practical to use then decide on the internal components.
 
370 watt does seem underpowered. I drive my scooter using about 500w (ah * V / burnTime) and you might want a little more so you can speed up or for reliability.

You may know this already but you need to consider buoyancy. You need it positively buoyant enough so you can add lead to trim it out, and use as a weighted keel and plan for salt or sea water, depending on your use.

I'm curious to see what you're doing for a hull.
 
370 watt is nowhere near enough IMO. If you believe the Tahoe Benchmark, the closest scooter to that was the Halcyon/Suex T16. It pulled 393w at max speed. In a recreational configuration, that was good for 187fpm and 40lbs of thrust. That DPV topped out at 179fpm with doubles and a stage, and pulled 386 in that configuration going 150fpm/46mpm. There is some debate on how valid that test is, but it's the best we have, so we'll have to go with that.
At 370w motor, you can assume roughly the same speeds, but that is not a lot of juice if you need to move through any sort of current. It admittedly is more powerful than the mako that was tested at 222w which will stall in some of the high flow caves, but it's a far cry from the 500w give or take that was the "standard" power for most cave diving DPV's.

If you are not concerned about speed, then the 370w is more than likely satisfactory and it's ultimate speed and thrust is going to be a function of the prop and shroud that it's in, but it's not going to be a speed demon. @victorzamora is far better versed at these things than I am. That said, the motor may be rated at 1700rpm, but depending on the battery in particular, but also a myriad of other factors, it's going to be slowed down by the prop because it just doesn't have enough oomph to turn at its full RPM even though you're giving it enough voltage that it should. If we look at tahoe, which again is what it is, everything is identical between an N19 and the Viper from Silent Submersion except for the battery, but the N19 generates 43lbs of thrust and pulls 465w at 203fpm, where the Viper generates 55lbs of thrust while pulling 673w at 224fpm. Same body/motor/prop/everything, just a bigger and more powerful battery. If you are able to put a more powerful motor in there, at the same speed, it "should" be comparable in terms of power consumption. I.e. if we look at the Magnus which also has the same body/prop/shroud, but has a much more powerful brushless motor, at cruise speed of 150fpm, the N19 pulls 364w, the viper pulls 374w, and the Magnus pulls 387w. That's all about close enough to being the same given the limits of the speed controllers and having to depitch the props, as well as the general accuracy of that test.
So, that all said, if you only ever want to go 100fpm/30mpm and aren't diving in current, then I would say that the 370w motor is probably sufficient. If you are going to want to go any faster, or have to dive in current, then I would highly recommend going to the 750w-ish motor.
 
@victorzamora is far better versed at these things than I am. That said, the motor may be rated at 1700rpm, but depending on the battery in particular, but also a myriad of other factors, it's going to be slowed down by the prop because it just doesn't have enough oomph to turn at its full RPM even though you're giving it enough voltage that it should.

So, the usual reason for electric motors to "bog down" and not spin fast enough is that high power draws (relative to the C-rating of the battery pack) cause big voltage drops that put the battery outside of the "nominal" operating window. Something as insanely huge as a 2400Wh lithium pack turning a 370W motor is not going to have ANY slow down due to that. Even crappy lithium packs are totally fine for 10C, and that motor is only 0.154C. Not even a lead-acid pack would struggle.

The motor, however, might. Depending on the prop, of course. That motor turning a "Tekna-style" prop/shroud will quickly overheat and be woefully insufficient to turn that prop at the rated 1700RPM. I don't know ANYTHING about the prop/screw OP is using, but that's what's going to dictate whether or not the motor melts (or has temp-protection circuitry kick in).
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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