Hollis HD200 vs Scubapro Equator

[Grender]

2. wings have dump valves, you just can't pull on the inflator to dump from the top, which is bad for the BC anyway because it is putting a lot of strain on the bladder, also has 0 actual benefit. When diving properly you should only be using the rear dump valves on ascent until the last 15 or so feet when you go vertical, but at that point the inflator itself works just fine.

Yea, I would never use the inflator dump anyways, seems unnecessary. For some reason I thought you said that wings don't have dump valves.

3. DSMB get's clipped off, whistle should be on the webbing, reel should have a clip so that gets clipped off, light gets clipped off. No need for a pocket for any of that stuff.

Isn't this preference though? If it goes in a pocket or it gets attached to the outside of the harness, what makes one superior to the other?

4. that is an equipment solution to a skills problem. You can also have ditchable weights on a BP/W, the same weight pockets work on them.
SCUBA Diving Equipment for Technical, Sidemount, Rebreather, Wreck and Cave Diving: Dive Rite, Inc - Product Catalog - Pockets
Dive Rite sells 4/16/32lb weight pockets, as do many other mfg's.

That is a solution, but again... If it is built into my bcd... why complicate it?

- I'm not trying to be difficult, but I just can't see how you can say one system is superior to the other. Is there some reason other than the fact that it is less cluttered/bulky that makes bp/w better? I would love to know because I am always trying to improve.

Also, is this the kind of rig you recommend than? HTS 2

 

[tbone1004]

you can put it in a pocket, but it is easier to access if it is clipped off to a location. Think about it. DSMB isn't used often, so clip it behind you. Reel should be quickly accessible, but spools can go in pockets if you prefer that. That said, thigh pockets are much easier than BC pockets for most people. Light will be out if you intend to use it, but on the BC straps keeps them readily accessible, and whistle should be in the same quickly accessible for emergency situation. So Instead of rifling through a pocket, everything has a place and it is easy to get to instead of digging through a pocket trying to find what you need without spilling everything else out. Most tech divers use thigh pockets of some sort, but they are generally neoprene shorts, thigh pockets, or attached to their exposure suit.

GUE uses two pockets, one has DSMB, wetnotes, and tables, the other has a couple double ender bolt snaps, finger spool/s, spare mask, etc, but important stuff is in the left, so wetnotes/tables usually goes on the right. "utility" on the left, "safety" on the right.
Note, I never said pockets are bad, but the things you listed are usually outside of them, but I don't like pockets on the BC itself, they take up a lot of room and are hard to get at.

If it is built into your BCD then use them, no arguments for me, but you don't need ditchable if you're diving a balanced rig. You can ditch at the surface, but you should never have to ditch at depth and if you only ditch the weight of air in your tank, then you'll still float at the end of the dive, might not be quite as high as you'd like, but if you have a safety sausage/lift bag you can use those at the surface to keep you up.

Re. HTS-2, no, post #5 has my recommendations.

 

[Water Boy76]

I am trying to decide between these two BCs.

I know Hollis is more geared for tech diving but their HD200 is their recreational BCD

I would ask my dive shop but they are a Scubapro only shop so I am afraid I wont get a straight forward answer.

Does anyone have experience with these brands that can offer insight into which one is the better buy?

HD-200 (Hollis)

SCUBAPRO - EQUATOR (Scubapro)

Also, any general thoughts on the brands and their qualities would help.

I'm not sure anyone besides myself gave you the information you requested. How surprising. Unfortunately the usual response from the group is that every diver needs a technical BP/W and a Petrel dive computer. Doesn't matter if you a dive master or just certified.

---------- Post added June 8th, 2015 at 03:27 PM ----------

This BC is nothing like a BP/W. Almost opposite, in fact. There's no rigid backplate, there's all sorts of padding and plastic buckles, extra pockets, a cummerbund, and a pull dump inflator. These are exactly the sorts of 'features' that BP/W divers don't want.

Where did I say it was a BP/W? I said it was close..
Believe it or not all divers want full BP/W rigs. BTW the first thing I did was remove cumberbund and there's no plastic buckles.

---------- Post added June 8th, 2015 at 03:27 PM ----------

This BC is nothing like a BP/W. Almost opposite, in fact. There's no rigid backplate, there's all sorts of padding and plastic buckles, extra pockets, a cummerbund, and a pull dump inflator. These are exactly the sorts of 'features' that BP/W divers don't want.

Where did I say it was a BP/W? I said it was close..
Believe it or not all divers want full BP/W rigs. BTW the first thing I did was remove cumberbund and there's no plastic buckles.

 

[tbone1004]

why is it a "technical bp/w", why can't it just be the better value and superior equipment? Simple economics dictate BP/W's better values than any other BC on the market based on resale values alone. Combine that with the fact they are generally built to higher quality, many are actually made in the USA, and are more versatile, they are superior. Doesn't mean the others aren't good, just that if you want the best equipment money can buy, or you want the best bang for your buck, all roads lead to BP/W.

I have yet to see a single person offer a legitimate argument for any BC over a BP/W. I have requested many times to see any legitimate argument, but similar to you trolling the computer thread, there is no better options. To answer your question on where you said it was like a BP/W, you said closest to a BP/W while enjoying all of the perks of a Jacket BC.
https://www.divegearexpress.com/dive-rite-hunterpac-bcd
Also, if you want to get technical, this is much closer, and much cheaper

So Mr. Water Boy, I pose this question to you. What makes the Hollis HD-200, with a price of $625, or apparently $400 to you, $20 better than the DRiS Trianta system? Include all of your "perks of a jacket bc" please. I guarantee we can put holes in every argument you make. Alternatively since you can't actually get the HD-200 for under $625 without a dive shop cutting you a deal, what makes it worth an extra $250 over the Trianta?

 

[halocline]

I have absolutely no ambition to get into technical.
I like using my dump valves for buoyancy adjustments.
I like pockets because I keep my sausage, emergency whistle, reel, and light in them.
I also like dumpable weights because I am a relatively new diver.

Do you still suggest a bp/w? I get the idea that BP/w is only for techies

I suggested that you try one before buying anything. But to address your questions:

1. While metal backplate/wing systems were originally designed for double tanks, they work great with single tanks, and in fact all of the major manufacturers have wings specifically designed for single tank use. It doesn't matter whether its recreational or technical diving. Probably the majority of BP/W users nowadays are simply recreational divers, simply because tech diving is a much smaller segment of the market and generally requires a lot more training and specialized equipment.

2. All wings have dump valves, I was referring to the pull-dump mechanism where you yank on the inflator and it opens a OPV on your shoulder. This is a very bad idea because you are literally trying to pull your BC apart with every dump. There is a cable inside the corrugated hose to help prevent actually pulling the inflator hose right off, but that cable breaks from time to time and then it's only a matter of time before the hose itself gets pulled off. I've seen this happen a number of times, it's not pretty.

3. All divers should consider carefully what they're bringing on a dive and why. In your case, I have to ask, why the reel? Or do you simply mean the spool attached to the safety sausage? Either way, it is better to clip the sausage/spool to a D ring, even if you have pockets. It's way easier to deploy. Have you considered keeping the whistle on a string around your neck? That way you can get it immediately, if you ever had to ditch the scuba rig you'd still have it, and it would be easy to blow into, let it drop, and not have to worry about it disappearing into the depths. The light (assuming you're talking about a small back-up type light, not a big primary light for night dives) clips very conveniently to one of the shoulder straps; in fact cave divers have to carry two small back up lights in just this way. It's immediately available and very much out-of-the-way the 90% time it's not in use.

4. Ditch-able weights are easy on a BP/W, in fact one of the many beefs I have with the hoards of soft BCs out there is the badly designed weight systems. Those things drop off with an alarming frequency, especially as the BC ages. You really really don't want your heavily loaded down weight pocket to say goodbye in the middle of a dive. A caveat; some brands do a much better job of securing weight pockets than others, and I don't know about the specific systems on the two BCs you're considering. But in general, quick release weights are not a great idea IMO. You can have ditch-able weights with a belt, and there are small camband pockets that you can take weights out of and drop easily without the quick release mechanism to screw up.

---------- Post added June 8th, 2015 at 03:05 PM ----------

I'm not sure anyone besides myself gave you the information you requested. How surprising. Unfortunately the usual response from the group is that every diver needs a technical BP/W....

Actually you brought up the BP/W issue, by saying "its as close to a BP/W with the perks of a......"

I responded to that statement. If you think that Hollis BC is anything like a BP/W, then you simply don't know anything about BP/W systems. Design-wise they are at opposite ends of the spectrum, at least for the hogarthian-style BP/W systems.

I really would not have gotten involved with this thread (there are a MILLION BP/W vs jacket BC threads out there already) but you got me going with a poor characterization of what BP/W systems are like. Thanks a lot!

 

[Water Boy76]

Wow people get really upset around here when you give an opinion on the gear you personally use. How can YOU decide what is best for ME. Get over yourself. I assure you the only trolls around here are the one's that suggest a BP/W for every person in every situation.

---------- Post added June 9th, 2015 at 03:49 PM ----------

why is it a "technical bp/w", why can't it just be the better value and superior equipment? Simple economics dictate BP/W's better values than any other BC on the market based on resale values alone. Combine that with the fact they are generally built to higher quality, many are actually made in the USA, and are more versatile, they are superior. Doesn't mean the others aren't good, just that if you want the best equipment money can buy, or you want the best bang for your buck, all roads lead to BP/W.

I have yet to see a single person offer a legitimate argument for any BC over a BP/W. I have requested many times to see any legitimate argument, but similar to you trolling the computer thread, there is no better options. To answer your question on where you said it was like a BP/W, you said closest to a BP/W while enjoying all of the perks of a Jacket BC.
https://www.divegearexpress.com/dive-rite-hunterpac-bcd
Also, if you want to get technical, this is much closer, and much cheaper

So Mr. Water Boy, I pose this question to you. What makes the Hollis HD-200, with a price of $625, or apparently $400 to you, $20 better than the DRiS Trianta system? Include all of your "perks of a jacket bc" please. I guarantee we can put holes in every argument you make. Alternatively since you can't actually get the HD-200 for under $625 without a dive shop cutting you a deal, what makes it worth an extra $250 over the Trianta?

So much incorrect information in this I don't even know where to begin... You equate everything in diving to a price point. That's your first mistake.

 

[tbone1004]

so answer the questions we asked, price point is a huge part of the discussion because if there is reason for something to be more expensive, why is it? You say that a BP/W isn't good for you, but you have yet to say why, you mention perks of a jacket bc, but you never mention what they are, you say that you can get that HD200 for $400 and only suckers pay retail, that price is pretty much fixed by AUP and unless you can convince a shop to give you a break on a package discount or whatever, it's a $600+ bcd.

You list so much incorrect information, there isn't that much info in there, so correct it. You have made suggestions without ANY reasoning, so offer the reasoning on why your suggestion is better than mine. If you can't, you're the one trolling because you are offering nothing meaningful to the conversation other than a different opinion with no reasoning behind it.

And no, BP/W isn't the only answer, sidemount is an acceptable alternative, and my preferred singles rig for diving with no wetsuit is actually a Dive Rite Transpac

 

[doctormike]

every diver needs a ... BP/W

I totally agree with you!

 

[Water Boy76]

Settle down cheapbone.... That's your new nickname.

You say I offer nothing meaningful as you flame on...
If you remember, the OP asked if anyone had experience with these BCD's. I responded and answered his questions by stating my opinions and experience, since I own one of them. Next the self appointed Scuba Board Police [cheapbone, halocline] told me I was wrong and there's much better BCD's out there. Funny they can say this when they don't know his diving style or certifications. And of course, as usual, the only acceptable BCD is a BP/W.

Simple fact. Most scuba divers are better served with a jacket or hybrid style BCD. They have other things in life to worry about than squeezing every nickel out of thier dive gear. They want simplicity. They don't care about D Rings, crotch straps, back inflation, back plates, dual mount, and cam bands. They just want to put something on and dive. They don't want to spend hours assembling, sizing, and configuring thier dive gear. There is simply more to life.....

---------- Post added June 9th, 2015 at 04:19 PM ----------

I totally agree with you!

Ha Ha.. I see what you did there

 

[tbone1004]

not cheapbone, I have a lot of rather expensive gear, there is a time and a place to spend money on the best, often times the best isn't the most expensive. Poseidon regulators, UWLD canister lights, Petrel, those are all in the top price points, but they all represent excellent value for what they are. I also have Hog regulators for stage/deco bottles, cheap chinese backup lights, and an old Nitek Duo computer that I got for $100 because they represent fantastic value for what they are. I use Dive Rite and Deep Sea Supply products because they are not only top quality, but they also represent good value and are made in the USA which is not something Hollis can claim about any of their products.

So they're better served by simplicity, so the most simple thing is a complicated sewn rig that has few or no replaceable parts with lots of adjustments that have to be fiddled with, or a hunk of stainless steel, a few feet of nylon webbing, a couple d-rings, and a wing? yup, stab jackets are totally more simple. There is a reason they cost more on average, there is a lot of man hours that goes into sewing a complex design, bp'w can be made cheap because there isn't a lot of stuff to sew by hand.

Takes me about an hour to set up and adjust a backplate and harness properly on someone starting from a pile of parts, after that, it doesn't need to be adjusted again, no pull straps, nothing. So where is the advantage to stab jackets aside from saving half an hour once in setup? Or what happens if they gain or lose weight? What about for those that are very small but dive in very cold water?

Most bc's have their lift fixed and often determined by size, including the HD-200. This diver is in Florida, but what if they were in Seattle and were a size M? This only had 35lbs of lift, that might not be enough but now they have no choice but to get a L or XL to get the 45lbs of lift? This diver is in Florida, he only needs 15lbs of lift, at his size he would have a 45lb wing, that is more than twice what he needs, system can't adapt. What happens if a small/medium sized diver buys this HD200 in Florida, but then moves to somewhere cold, or travels to go dive the Great Lakes or PNW where they need more lift? Now instead of a $300 or less wing to get more lift, they have to buy another BC because this can't adapt. Explain how that is a good decision?