Hog Regulator Combo or get something better ???

[GROBIOG]

You have no point. Re-read the posts. The OP asked if he should buy a Hog or not. People that owned Hogs chimed in and said they breath the same as higher end regs, so there is really nothing better. Then you and Beaver comes in and trashes Hog. Nobody was speaking badly of Scubapro, Apeks, or Atomic or any other brand. you can say Scubapro is marketed to people that can afford it but that is not true. Scubapro likes to create the impression that they are the best but Hog pokes a hole in their story.

I'm sorry, I missed the post where I trashed Hog, would you be so kind and reference that post for us all, before I start calling you a liar, thanks.

I'll be waiting...

---------- Post Merged at 01:33 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:16 AM ----------

You have no point. Re-read the posts. The OP asked if he should buy a Hog or not. People that owned Hogs chimed in and said they breath the same as higher end regs, so there is really nothing better. Then you and Beaver comes in and trashes Hog. Nobody was speaking badly of Scubapro, Apeks, or Atomic or any other brand. you can say Scubapro is marketed to people that can afford it but that is not true. Scubapro likes to create the impression that they are the best but Hog pokes a hole in their story.

What you should be asking is what is the differences between the regs? For example Apeks seconds the 20, 40, 50. The 20 is the base model, they replace a plastic spacer with a metal one and it becomes a 40, add an adjuster and now it is a 50. Change the covers and you have a 100 and 200. Lets look at Scubapro, the difference between a 295 and a 395 is a plastic flow vane, between a 555 and 600 is an adjuster yet there are major price differences between models because the regs are made not for performance but to hit price points.

You would lose your limb. Zeagle and Dive Rite do not sell at a discount price and nobody bad mouths them. The sad fact is that even after 50 years Scubapro does not know the scuba market as well as the upstart Hog.

What does the number of dives have to do with anything? You dive Scubapro because you sell Scubapro plain and simple. Scubapros are no better and could be worse than Apeks.

Scubapro moved from the metal air barrel in the G250 to plastic air barrels in the G250HP, G500 and S600 this caused freeze ups and free flows for cold water divers. Apeks always had metal barrels and had better freeze resistance because they were made for diving in North Sea conditions. So after a decade or so Scubapro realized their mistake and brought back the G250V and now replaced the plastic air barrel in the S600 with a metal one. I own all the regs referenced plus a few others like Beuchat and Sherwood and some older Scubapros. How long did it take Scubapro to come out with a sealed diaphragm reg? Also didn't Scubapro's main designers leave the company because they didn't like the products Scubapro were making and form the competitor Atomic?

Don't base it on my judgement, base it on all the people that had freezeups and freeflows because Scubapro switched to a plastic barrel to save a dollar or two. Even the warm water Apeks have a metal air barrel. Also the new XTX from Apeks are reversible which is better for sidemounting. If you want a reversible Scubapro find a vintage Air 1 from the 1980's.

So now how about you telling us why you think Scubapro's products and services are so great?

Hey can you read that first sentence in red for us?

 

[ams511]

Although I know we are not talking about masks, myself and 3 other friends purchased Hog masks. We made our purchase decision based on costs only. 3 of the 4 ,masks leaked. So that leads me to question the quality of the products by Hog in general. It also taught me a lesson that cheap is not necessarily good and I reconsidered. A friend of mine who has been teaching scuba for over 43 years dives only Scuba Pro and has no complaints or failures with the gear. That has made me decide to purchase Scuba Pro as my equipment of choice. I do believe that my life and safety is worth the additional cost!

It may not be a cost issue but a fit issue. Not all masks fit all faces. The Hog mask is supposedly like a Sherwood Rona, there is a Scubamax mask that is identical to Scubapro's. One of the dirty secrets of the dive industry is that it is such a small market there is only a few vendors, so you can have a situation where competitors buy the masks of the same company.

---------- Post Merged at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:51 PM ----------

I'm sorry, I missed the post where I trashed Hog, would you be so kind and reference that post for us all, before I start calling you a liar, thanks.

I'll be waiting...

Nobody was speaking badly about Scubapro until you and Beaver showed up. Again what is so good about Scubapro's product quality and service that makes them better than anyone else?

 

[Griffo]

I own one set of Aqualung Titan LX regs.
One set of HOG D1 Colds.
I've also used quite a few times various rental regs, SP's, Aqualungs etc

I think the Titan's and the HOG's are the best regs WOB wise I have used in my limited experience. Far better than any rental reg I have used. WOB wise, I can't pick the difference between them to be honest. The HOG is slightly heavier.

The Titans cost me around $1300 and the AAS is non adjustable.
The HOG's cost me around .. $400 I think and both second stages are adjustable.

I've given the Titans to the missus as she dives a whole lot less than me, so the cost to service is lower. I might have a different story in another 2-300 dives, but so far the HOG's seem every bit as good a reg, and have far better customer service than the Aqualungs.
My GUE instructor uses HOG's for his singles, and Apeks for his doubles. I dunno if that means anything other than the order they were purchased.

So who knows. What I can say is that they certainly aren't junk, the work well, and technical divers with far more experience than me use them. I don't think that would be the case if they were anything other than top quality, all that's left now is the brand loyalty you get in any gear oriented sport.

 

[KJSmith84]

wow- alot of great info here.

Im learning alot. Since we are talking about scubapro alot- has anyone tried there sister company- subgear? the sg-1000 looks like a decent reg. anyone use this reg?

I started a new thread on it too in case we wanted to stay on topic here with the hog vs. other brands.
​http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/430678-subgear-sg-1000-same-scubapro-mk17-s600.html

 

[elan]

Wow, the thread really went south with all the acquisitions... Why do some HOG owners get offended so easy ? , it's just a reg, there is enough crap in the industry, if we now start fighting over which reg is the best today according to the weather forecast people we will have no time for diving. There are enough good regs on the market that we can now select them based on what logo we like the most. Be it HOG or Scubapro the up keeping cost would be the main money drain and I do not see it much different for either. At least here. If one is DIY the SP kits can be found sometimes for the same cost or even cheaper than others.

 

[JohnN]

Wow, the thread really went south with all the acquisitions... Why do some HOG owners get offended so easy ? , it's just a reg, there is enough crap in the industry, if we now start fighting over which reg is the best today according to the weather forecast people we will have no time for diving. There are enough good regs on the market that we can now select them based on what logo we like the most. Be it HOG or Scubapro the up keeping cost would be the main money drain and I do not see it much different for either. At least here. If one is DIY the SP kits can be found sometimes for the same cost or even cheaper than others.

Agreed,

Civility has left the room. What stirred my tea is one vendor bashing another, with no apparent basis, other than it was not his brand.

If there is evidence, it should be presented in as factual as possible a manner. Given that, I don't think anyone will have any complaints. However this all started with a SP Platinum Dealer (who shall go un-named). The kicker (at least to me) is that to be a SP Platinum, they are not allowed to carry any other brands. Given this, and without any apparent factual basis for a complaint, the motives are reasonably called into question.

 

[cerich]

from my point of view

Start with performance, and there are two angles here that I consider

One is how easy it feels to breath, it needs to do so easily. We all have slightly different tastes in how that ease of breathing is delivered, some like major venturi, others not at all. I like a small amount of venturi but must be smooth, not harsh.

Other than WOB (work of breathing) I consider the gas flow, it affects WOB but a GREAT design will simply have the ability to move gobs of gas, as much as a tank valve will give it (something some manufs tend to avoid when touting their flow ability... LOL)[

Then I start to look at build quality, I want the thing to last and hold up to marine use, there are some brands that have a great look and performance that can't last 5 years in average use... that is wrong.

I then make sure I can use pretty standard tools, the goal is to make a great reg, not a complicated one. I admire people that can do complicated stuff..really. Not my approach however

I have posed the question in another thread and got no answer, so I'll try again here...

What makes a reg better than the other?

And this question is on specifics, my question(your answer) is focused on the in water portion of one-reg-is-better-than-the-other debate, if you would like to answer my question,please forget about cost, warranty, service, availability and other facts that do not affect performance, it's a strait forward question

What makes one reg better, mechanically, than the other?

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---------- Post Merged at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:47 PM ----------

I'll be at the Colorado show end of next month, no reason you couldn't be a EDGE and HOG dealer by then. Whoever does in that market will enjoy it.

If they didn't have 10 times the dealers I do in any given area I would be shocked, they are more than ten times bigger and have been around forever...

Just for fun, I did a 500 mile search from my zip code. I found two ( 2 ) hog dealers.

One in Montana & one in Nebraska.

In Colorado alone we have 9 Scubapro dealers. No hog.

---------- Post Merged at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:47 PM ----------

actually I am amazed how much the plastic barrel saves. thus I did the EDGE EXP as a entry level reg for EDGE, It has great performance, however it is not as good a cold reg by any means, in fact I decided not to offer it with a cold kit for the first stage for that reason. However for divers in water above 45 or so it is an awesome choice that breaths better than regs twice the price ands equal to some that are almost 3 times the price.

Don't base it on my judgement, base it on all the people that had freezeups and freeflows because Scubapro switched to a plastic barrel to save a dollar or two. Even the warm water Apeks have a metal air barrel. Also the new XTX from Apeks are reversible which is better for sidemounting. If you want a reversible Scubapro find a vintage Air 1 from the 1980's.

So now how about you telling us why you think Scubapro's products and services are so great?

---------- Post Merged at 03:03 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:47 PM ----------

the HOG mask is made at the same place as a Scubapro mask that is virtually identical. Plus, I have NEVER Heard of 3 out of 4 HOG masks leaking, in fact I can't think of a single one off the top of my head.

I call BS on this.

Although I know we are not talking about masks, myself and 3 other friends purchased Hog masks. We made our purchase decision based on costs only. 3 of the 4 ,masks leaked. So that leads me to question the quality of the products by Hog in general. It also taught me a lesson that cheap is not necessarily good and I reconsidered. A friend of mine who has been teaching scuba for over 43 years dives only Scuba Pro and has no complaints or failures with the gear. That has made me decide to purchase Scuba Pro as my equipment of choice. I do believe that my life and safety is worth the additional cost!

 

[Dr Dog]

fI have NEVER Heard of 3 out of 4 HOG masks leaking, in fact I can't think of a single one off the top of my head.

I call BS on this.

The reason I bought HOG was when someone posted about their mask having issues. Without even asking, Chris here and Jim Lapenta, both offered to replace the mask, free of charge. That alone put my mind to ease about what kind of equipment I was getting, and what kind of people back it up

I was thinking about buying a couple ScubaPro items, like jets, but I have since changed my mind, Obviously they have enough money already

If 3 out of 4 masks leaked, they would have already been replaced

 

[Them]

The mask thing is just individual fit. Most masks I've tried leak for me (I gots me a funky head). The HOG Predator I tried didn't seal well for me at all. The HOG technical mask, on the other hand, works great. For someone else it might be the other way around.

I can't really add to the regulator discussion except to address this:

Originally Posted by gcarter ...
Hog has certainly earned itself a much more customer service friendly reputation than SP has, and its willingness to train and supply parts kits to end users has won them a lot of support as well.
...

That's all related to money, and that's exactly my point

The ability to service your own gear is NOT about money. It's about self reliance. Reliability in general actually. If you can't maintain something, you can't rely on it, because if it fails you have no power to resolve that failure yourself. It's as if you don't really own it at all but are just renting it from whoever has the monopoly on maintenance.

 

[jonnythan]

The Hog regs perform well, tolerate cold water well, and the service kits are easy to find. Not much competition for that set of requirements.