Hog Regulator Combo or get something better ???

[JamesK]

Not sure really; but from what i have read the mk17 and S600 always get great reviews so there is no second guessing with this reg.
I think it is cheaper because they do not offer the free parts for life program that ScubaPro regs get; so this is where the savings come from?

The mk17 is a great reg IMO. Believe me, I am not knocking Scuba Pro or Subgear. However to qualify for parts for life you need to have also purchased the BC. I honestly feel it is simply priced that much higher because of the name. Until someone can prove otherwise, I see no compelling reason to change this thought.

 

[elan]

So let's strip everything down. Let's talk about regs only. Not service, not price, nothing but the regs. What make Scuba Pro better than HOG?

You have to pick the models And again it will not be apple to apple comparison as scuba pro has actually designed the regs no tweaked the existing designs.

AIR1, D-series although not produced any more IMHO blow away current Apeks seconds or an Apeks clone or any the current SP own designs of the seconds, This Saturday I have compared them side by side, I had an ATX50 side by side with D300, ATX50 was tuned to the point that Case geometry fault would not allow to tune it better when the knob was 1/4 way to the all the way out.

It breathed very nice but after switching to D300 I could clearly tell the difference. I did not have a magnahelic when I was tuning the ATX50 though so I cannot give you the numbers now.

I have only heard that A700 has a good Case Geometry Fault but I have no first hand experience so may be other folks can comment on that.

Now if HOG's second's Case Fault is significantly better than ATX50 that could be different but looking at the stage I cannot say it would be too different.

Some divers prefer to have the purge cover unscrewable under water, now that could be treated as a better reg by some and not by the others.

The MK17 design superiority was discussed recently and DA Aquamaster has posted the key points why it is better. You can do a search - his answer to me was posted not so long time ago (within last 2 weeks)

Mk25 flows high rates but I have never seen the rates for HOG BP so may be HOG can publish the rates of their BP2

 

[The Chairman]

So when did it suddenly become too difficult to repair a regulator?

Who suggested this at all?

How long is a regulator repair course?

For most people, it's about 4 hours.

If my car breaks down I have a choice: fix it myself, take it to a Ford dealer, or use an independent mechanic.

You still have that option. There are plenty of after market seats and o-rings available to fit most regs.

 

[elan]

I have found the DA's post and here it is in quotes
"The noticeable difference is the size of the air passages and the size of the working range of the valve in the Mk 17. It uses a thin diaphragm as well as a pair of washers that serve to increase the distance that the seat can lift off the orifice. It also has a separate bleed hole to the balance sized of the seat carrier so gas can move back and forth very efficiently in response to pressure changes. Finally, the high pressure orifice, seat and carrier are designed to maximize air flow. The orifice has a radius sunder the seating edge and the seat and carrier are designed to allow higher gas flow than in traditional designs.

The end result of the combination of the flexible diaphragm, better seat carrier balancing and better flow past the seat/orifice due to both streamlining and greater working range is very fast response time and high flow rates that were not previously found in diaphragm first stages.

The Mk 17 made me a convert to diaphragm regs and I replaced my Mk 20s and 25s with them shortly after the Mk 17 came out."

 

[SkimFisher]

Glad you figured something out.

That goes right in line with What most are saying. If what you bought is just a relabeled Scuba Pro for a cheaper price, why are the Scuba Pro so much more expensive?

But congrats on your new reg purchase!

Because they employ engineers and own their own milling machines instead of rebranding someone else's design.

It costs a lot more to actually innovate/design/test/deploy a product than to shop around for knock-offs and maybe tweak something. I'm not so naive as to think that a part of the cost isn't just because of the name, but there is up-front cost and increased overhead associated with retaining control and ownership over the entire design and manufacturing processes. That means the product is more expensive.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a knock-off, but let's give credit where credit is due. There are really only three (maybe four) companies that have contributed to regulator design in a big way. Everyone else has just gotten better at undercutting them.

 

[JamesK]

That does not answer the Subgear question.

 

[JamesK]

Plus I have never knocked Scuba Pro. I own a few of them and love them.

 

[freeclimbmtb]

First regs I bought were used SP Mk20 ultralight with a G250 and an Air2. They had the unused rebuld parts in a baggie with the recipt for the rebuild attached to the reg. (true someone could have staped it there after the fact, but i believe they had not been used since the rebuild.) everything worked great for 3 dives. Dive 4, the air2 started leaking. I brought it to the shop that did the service, along with the documentation. They charged me full price for another rebuild, basically this told me they didnt stand behind their workmanship. Say what you will, this left a sour taste in my mouth.

Second regs I bought: brand new Legend LX ACD with matching octo. They breathe harder than they SPs and I found myself constantly spitting out more seawater than I had noticed before, but they dont leak air and they let me breathe under water.

Then a very good friend turned me on to HOG. The user serviceable portion of it got me interested, but meeting chris at the scuba show in long beach sent it home for me. Now I dive a set of DIN HOG regs with a long hose setup, and I can't think of a single reason I would ever leave it. (unless I left it for 2 DIN HOG regs on a set of doubles)

The SP is being delegated for a sling bottle, and the Legends are waiting patiently in the corner for someone that wants them. I don't have the heart to give them away, but I would have a hard time with my self if I tried to sell them for more than a set of new HOGs to try and get my investment back.



Just my $0.02
I am not a Pro. I am a pretty new recreational diver. I just happen to have have a new divers perspective on a few regs.

 

[chrpai]

First regs I bought were used SP Mk20 ultralight with a G250 and an Air2. They had the unused rebuld parts in a baggie with the recipt for the rebuild attached to the reg. (true someone could have staped it there after the fact, but i believe they had not been used since the rebuild.) everything worked great for 3 dives. Dive 4, the air2 started leaking. I brought it to the shop that did the service, along with the documentation. They charged me full price for another rebuild, basically this told me they didnt stand behind their workmanship. Say what you will, this left a sour taste in my mouth.

I'm curious what it cost you to rebuild the Air2. (Seeing that a new Hog D1 2nd is about $100 )

 

[elan]

First regs I bought were used SP Mk20 ultralight with a G250 and an Air2. They had the unused rebuld parts in a baggie with the recipt for the rebuild attached to the reg. (true someone could have staped it there after the fact, but i believe they had not been used since the rebuild.) everything worked great for 3 dives. Dive 4, the air2 started leaking. I brought it to the shop that did the service, along with the documentation. They charged me full price for another rebuild, basically this told me they didnt stand behind their workmanship. Say what you will, this left a sour taste in my mouth.

Second regs I bought: brand new Legend LX ACD with matching octo. They breathe harder than they SPs and I found myself constantly spitting out more seawater than I had noticed before, but they dont leak air and they let me breathe under water.

Then a very good friend turned me on to HOG. The user serviceable portion of it got me interested, but meeting chris at the scuba show in long beach sent it home for me. Now I dive a set of DIN HOG regs with a long hose setup, and I can't think of a single reason I would ever leave it. (unless I left it for 2 DIN HOG regs on a set of doubles)

The SP is being delegated for a sling bottle, and the Legends are waiting patiently in the corner for someone that wants them. I don't have the heart to give them away, but I would have a hard time with my self if I tried to sell them for more than a set of new HOGs to try and get my investment back.



Just my $0.02
I am not a Pro. I am a pretty new recreational diver. I just happen to have have a new divers perspective on a few regs.

That has nothing to do with the regs but rather the quality of the work that is done by the LDS. The leak most likely happened due to the seat taking a set, the reg monkey has not accounted for that