Hog Regulator Combo or get something better ???

[cerich]

in honesty, you can mail it to many of my dealers more conveniently than driving to and back , to and back from a local dealer. Regardless, the dealer network is growing VERY rapidly.

USA and Canada aside, we have dealers in Australia, New Zealand, Spain, Italy, Germany, Finland, and enough business in Asia that we recently opened a warehouse in Taiwan to service them.

This is the best advice to new diver. As much as I like HOG regulator, not being able to have immediate support (local or destination) can be frustrating. For new divers, self service is not likely and not recommended either. Good performance, good buid quality and low cost is just half the story.

 

[The Chairman]

A magnehelic gauge isn't an absolute necessity.

I never said it was. I said that they should reconsider attempting such a project if they aren't willing to make the proper investments. An ultrasonic cleaner is not a necessity either but it does an incredibly nice job. My point is that servicing your reg takes time, effort, patience and a certain commitment to doing it correctly, the first time. Can you "make it work" without the tools? Sure, but why? Yes, I have been away from my tools and have had to make things work or give up diving until I got back. Tools rarely, if ever, hold me back. But then, I've had to fix things for a long time and even while hanging upside down and reaching backwards. It's in my nature to never give up until I get it right. Not everyone has the tenacity or the desire to do this and that's OK. They aren't throwing their money away when they have others do their service for them. They have other, and possibly better things to do with their time and resources and again: I'm way OK with that.

 

[Dr Dog]

This is the best advice to new diver. As much as I like HOG regulator, not being able to have immediate support (local or destination) can be frustrating. For new divers, self service is not likely and not recommended either. Good performance, good buid quality and low cost is just half the story.

I am a newer diver, when I bought my regs and bp/w I was 5 post cert dives in. I will be changing my SB number of dives next week hopefully, so that would make 20 dives on my HOGs.

I was offered by Jim Lapenta to send them to him for servicing, but i am in Canada, he knew that would not happen. So somehow, the specs for service ended up in my hands,and I fwd them to my LDS, who I do trust to work on my regs.

I don't see your argument, and quite frankly if my LDS refused to service my regs due to them being not theirs, I find another LDS. The amount of money my LDS gets from me, if they cannot service my gear, I am pretty sure I can find someone to take my money, that will do what I need. If these are APEKS clones, then they should not have an issue getting them fixed for me.

Bottom line... Hog is a fantastic value, for someone looking for a top quality reg for budget prices. My wife and I got into SCUBA at the same time, you think you guys got it bad....., try buying two of everything..


Another thing someone once told me when I was talking about scuba with them ( rhwestfall) that if it costs half the money and it lasts half as long, then you are still where you would be if you bought the compared item in the first place

 

[Them]

I will tell you that my advice to ALL new divers, buying their very first regs -- Don't go cheap, don't go fancy. Buy a world-wide name brand (and for me, that pretty much limits to Aqua Lung or Scuba Pro) for your first setup. Why? Because IF you are at all an active and travelling divers, you are most likely to be able to get something fixed if it is AL or SP. There are good reasons why both brands have been around for a long time and why they have world wide recognition.

I wonder if when I have more experience I'll agree with you. At this point I think your advice is a ham sandwich.

Huh? OK, sorry, my brain is like that sometimes. The thing is, very few people are actually harmed in any measurable sense by being given a ham sandwich. On top of that, most people like them and would be grateful for a ham sandwich. They are good sandwiches.

However...there are people who, if they take that sandwich without realizing what it is, will have regrets. If you don't ask a question or two before handing out the ham you run the risk of not really satisfying some people...or, worse, causing unnecessary anguish. So while ham sandwiches are good sandwiches, they aren't necessarily safe sandwiches to be giving out willy nilly.

To render that more concrete: I think your advice is good for new divers who are already planning to travel to foreign destinations to dive. Judging by the stats (number of people who get OW certified due to an upcoming trip, etc.) I bet that's most new divers. However, I don't think it is good advice for me. I would be far better served with a new Edge or the like today (at $20/day for rented regs it pays for itself quick) and to spend the next 2-3 years with my eyes open for a used SP or the like as a travel reg for any future international travel. Why? Because my plan is to do a lot of local/US waters diving and I doubt my next 3 international vacations will involve scuba at all, so ability to get a regulator serviced in Fiji means bupkis to me, but having an affordable regulator now means I'll have more opportunities to dive the local lakes.

We'll see how my opinion changes over time.

 

[cbm32]

Fiji? Did someone say, Fiji??

I did 70 dives in Fiji with my Hogs last fall. Had a little problem with one oring that was easily taken care of and that was it. No other problems at all. I did have along an extra 1st stage and an extra 2nd stage but never needed them.

 

[ams511]

The truth is: most people should never try to service their own regs. Why? For some of the same reasons you have identified and a few more...

Please correct me if I am wrong but it is my understanding that when scuba started out regulators were shipped with a repair manual and troubleshooting guide. There was no annual maintenance requirement, if it started acting up you fixed it. The manufacturers also sold parts. In the Vance Harlow book he talks about "travel kits" being sold which were rebuilt kits. So when did it suddenly become too difficult to repair a regulator? How long is a regulator repair course?

If my car breaks down I have a choice: fix it myself, take it to a Ford dealer, or use an independent mechanic. If my regulator breaks down my only choice is to take it to a factory authorized tech as most manufacturers will not sell me parts. Do you see a problem with that?

As you mention you have met clueless techs and many of us have experienced their careless work. So why should we be held captive to them?

 

[SkimFisher]

You would lose your limb. Zeagle and Dive Rite do not sell at a discount price and nobody bad mouths them. The sad fact is that even after 50 years Scubapro does not know the scuba market as well as the upstart Hog.

That people are cheap?

 

[ams511]

That people are cheap?

Scubapro is no longer the innovator they once were they are a follower. Were they the company that brought you backplates and wings or did they come late to the party? Many tech divers in the US wanted a MK-19 but Scubapro in their infinite wisdom decided to restrict sales to Europe, why? They killed the G-250 only to bring them back again as divers weren't impressed with the S600 or G250HP.

 

[SkimFisher]

Look, people are cheap. That's what the fanfare comes down to. If DiveRite, OxyCheq or Salvo (RIP) were giving the repair classes for their regs then everyone and their grandmother would be here talking about DiveRite, OxyCheq and Salvo.

I'll leave it up to you to figure out why I mention those three regs specifically and how they're related.

Now, the HOG business model is great. I applaud the ingenuity. Take what would be a mediocre reg in the traditional service/repair model, and teach people how to service it themselves. No problem with that, but just call it what it is. It's cheap and accessible. Once it has reached the level of "cheap and accessible" it could be a soda straw and a tin can and people will still swear it's better than SP, Atomic, Aqua Lung, etc.

I don't believe there is a "bad" reg out there, but if you really believe that all are created equally then I'll just stop here. If you really believe you bought HOG regs because they are "better than ________" then you are really kidding yourself. Cheap and accessible. Nothing else.

...and to someone else that said that they're so cheap because they don't advertise. GMAB. They're cheap because of how and where they're made. Again, don't kid yourself. Call it what it is. You get a big, giant "Come on, man!"

And yes, those ARE Atomic M1's in the pic. I don't need to try HOG's because I already own a Dive Rite. Ba-zing!

 

[tracydr]

The vast majority of divers have never tried to service their own equipment and have little or no idea of the "mysterious, complicated workings" of regulator innards. They rely on their LDS to take care of their gear. The LDS, for their part, find it in their own best interests to keep the customer in the dark concerning the facts of regulator design. "It's your life we're talking about. You need the best and the best costs more. You need to bring it back to us for service because it's your life we're talking about here!"

As long as the industry can keep their customers ignorant of the facts, the more money they can coerce out of them.

The truth is, regulators are extremely simple devices inside. There is no mystery about how they work, if one just takes the time to learn about them. Anyone can work on their own gear if they want to. Once you've taken a few apart and put them back together, you realize that all piston regulators work off the same principles and, inside, one looks pretty much like another. The same goes for diaphragm regs. The main differences between brands and models are on the outside, where bling is used to convince a prospective buyer to make that high dollar purchase. It doesn't make the equipment work any better, it just brings in more profits.

But, hey, ya gots pockets full of cash and like to throw it around on bling, more power to ya, pal! Me, I got other things to spend my extra cash on. Like diving.

Boy, is that the truth. Especially a second stage! It's made with about three or four parts inside.
i like that I can take my HOG apart so easily and look inside. Or, clean it out if it gets a piece of sand stuck in it or some such minor issue.