OP
HOG Equipment service class report
- Thread starter TSandM
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
HOG regulators aren't intended for the recreational diver and neither is their service course. This is quite clear if you'd read through their website, or the interview posted on TDI's site.
As Peter mentioned, if you showed sincere interest and need you would probably be allowed to take this class.
Of course, if you were seriously interested in learning regulator service, you'd be spending your time taking actual steps towards learning this skill instead of whining on the internet about one manufacturer's policy as if it's some sort of real barrier to acquiring this knowledge. People learned how to service regulators before this course and there are plenty of other options out there.
The only limit is you.
Bubbletrubble
Contributor
@TSandM: For the latter part of this thread, I have just been responding to posts directed at me. Clearly, you are unhappy with the direction of the discussion.
I'll ask a mod to delete all of my posts. Feel better now?
Have a nice day and good luck with the reg servicing. If you have any questions about reg servicing/troubleshooting, please feel free to start a thread in the DIY reg servicing section. There are a lot of helpful and experienced DIY'ers here on ScubaBoard...but I warn you that not all of them have a tech diving certification.
I, for one, have enjoyed this thread, starting with the original class report. And it has also been good to get at least most of the cards turned face up regarding this class as it appears the marketing of it leaves out a few details. From what I gather we have a class that retails for $250, there aren't any reference materials for the class, but recommended to purchase Vance Harlow's reg book, that's $50. The student tech does need to provide some tools, such as an IP gauge, torque wrench, spanner wrench, etc., another $200 or so. If they do not already own basic open end wrenches, screwdrivers and the lot, there may be an additional cost outlay.
Adding it up the cost for the course for the average budding technician is $500, plus time and travel expenses. As long as the course has solid content in it, this could be a worthy investment, depends on the person and their motivation for taking the course. The OP with 19 regs, will most likely see a huge benefit, while a person with 2 regs, needing to overhaul every two years may not see the benefit as readily. There does seem to be a few discrepancies in the courses offered, but I am sure they will work out as this progresses.
Another question is, who is really setting the standards and the course content? Obviously HOG plays a huge role, but since the certification is issued by TDI are they setting prerequisites or standards as well? I do not mean this as a knock in any direction, just curious. I would also imagine, as this continues that if there is enough of a demand then the prerequisites may change.
Some have looked at this class and the concept by HOG as the savior to the down trodden scuba consumer. Personally, I have my concerns. If you recall there was another company that went this path a number of years ago, it ended poorly. Another, is this concept defendable? If there is an incident (highly doubtful, I know) can HOG defend that they are the only manufacturer offering this while all the big boys boys do not?
I do not have that answer. I have a lot of respect for the HOG company, owner, supporters, divers and equipment. Just asking a few questions.
Adding it up the cost for the course for the average budding technician is $500, plus time and travel expenses. As long as the course has solid content in it, this could be a worthy investment, depends on the person and their motivation for taking the course. The OP with 19 regs, will most likely see a huge benefit, while a person with 2 regs, needing to overhaul every two years may not see the benefit as readily. There does seem to be a few discrepancies in the courses offered, but I am sure they will work out as this progresses.
Another question is, who is really setting the standards and the course content? Obviously HOG plays a huge role, but since the certification is issued by TDI are they setting prerequisites or standards as well? I do not mean this as a knock in any direction, just curious. I would also imagine, as this continues that if there is enough of a demand then the prerequisites may change.
Some have looked at this class and the concept by HOG as the savior to the down trodden scuba consumer. Personally, I have my concerns. If you recall there was another company that went this path a number of years ago, it ended poorly. Another, is this concept defendable? If there is an incident (highly doubtful, I know) can HOG defend that they are the only manufacturer offering this while all the big boys boys do not?
I do not have that answer. I have a lot of respect for the HOG company, owner, supporters, divers and equipment. Just asking a few questions.
It seems like what HOG is saying is that many divers are already servicing their own gear, but have to go through back channels to get the parts and manuals to be able to do so. It sounds like HOG wants to legitimize this process and offer training that will improve the success and safety of DIY servicing, and offer increased convenience for those who are going to use the heck out of their gear.
I know there's some concern with the state of our industry, but I see many of the changes as exciting, this being one of them.
halocline
Contributor
The absurd policy of major manufacturers restricting parts and requiring dealer service would be much more believable if:
1) There were TRUE standards of professionalism in the repair techs, instead of a one-day-no-fail seminar open to anyone who is a dive shop employee.
2) There was not a direct contradiction between the idea that regulator failure=certain death, and the most basic safety measures (buddy system, air sharing, CESA) taught in the OW courses by the very same dealers who are claiming that the crucial 'life support' nature of regulators necessitates 'professional' repair.
HOG is taking a step away from this absurdity. More power to them.
1) There were TRUE standards of professionalism in the repair techs, instead of a one-day-no-fail seminar open to anyone who is a dive shop employee.
2) There was not a direct contradiction between the idea that regulator failure=certain death, and the most basic safety measures (buddy system, air sharing, CESA) taught in the OW courses by the very same dealers who are claiming that the crucial 'life support' nature of regulators necessitates 'professional' repair.
HOG is taking a step away from this absurdity. More power to them.
R
redacted
Guest
For some of us that are not into tech diving, it may still be easier to obtain Scubapro parts and manuals than those from HOG.
Agreed. However I would not call the policy absurd. I would VERY much like to see a higher standard applied by the manufacturers. ScubaPro does a decent clinic that provides hands on with each reg for each tech and the last one I did (several years ago) also had live test and setup fir the regs.
Just taking them apart and slapping them back together is not an adequate repair lesson (IMHO). And sadly this is what most tecs are taught. I personally feel the best answer is to push the manufacturers to provide better training and to police the ranks of the dive centers providing service.
irishsquid
Contributor
I'm not really interested at this time in servicing my regs. I only have 2 HOG reg sets and it isn't that big a deal to have them serviced every 2 years. What I find somewhat curious though is; I wasn't required to show or prove a Tech Certification to purchase my 2 sets, so why is that a standard to service them myself?
With that said, I love my regs and am glad I wasn't required to show a certification to purchase them.
A few little tidbits from a HOG Equipment Service Clinic Instructor
1. If you are already an established and factory trained tech for other brands there is a techincian crossover that is available.
2. A techincian cert and an tech diving cert are two very different animals
3. The tech diving cert pre req has already been touched on by a few posters and the acceptable ones are defined. Just ask your your HOG instructor. A TDI nitrox course is a go. A PADI Nitrox is not. An SDI nitrox is not. The TDI nitrox course goes into more theory regarding partial pressures and risks of using high O2 that recreational ones for the most part only barley touch on now. ANY overhead cert is ok as HOG considers any overhead environment a techincal dive. Staged Deco - Overhead, Advanced Wreck with Penetration - Overhead, Ice - Overhead, Cave - Overhead. I defer to Chris on any thing I'm not familiar with or have a question about.
4. The student is required to dive the reg as part of the course. Originally it was set up as a two day with the second day for diving. Logistics in many areas made that impractical but the student can still be required to dive the reg and submit the log from that dive. I plan on putting on a course sometime this spring and luckily have a shop pool and local site available.
5. The requirement for a tech diving cert does have some idea that anyone who has gone to the effort to get one would hopefully be someone who has some vested interest in diving regularly, pays attention to details, and is understands the risks that are involved in this activity. I agree that there are many recreational divers that fit this as well and that may be taken into account at some point but for right now there had to be some way to set a minimum. This is the one that was chosen.
6. There is a manual for the HOG reg and it is given to the student who takes the class. I suppose it is inevitable that some day it will make it to the net but as an author myself I can see why it is not yet being released. Perhaps it will at some point but that's not my call and I will not release the copy I have. I will have to purchase copies for my students when I put the course on and that's the way it should be.
7. The standards I have for the course were set by HOG and TDI. Those are the ones I need to go by. They spell out tools, materials, and the additional subjects that are to be covered. Many mfg reg courses do not go back into basic diving physics, physiology, gas laws, blending techniques, and dive planning. This course does. It briefly reviews those and a few other academic items before actually getting into the reg. As with the Reg Savvy book. How is not enough. The why is also covered. There is supposed to be a good understanding of the theory behind regs and regs in general so that it is not just a tear down/reassemble course.
8. Finally I need to reiterate this. The course for the consumer DOES NOT authorize you to work on other people's regs. Only regs personally owned by you.
I know I have not addressed all the points brought up but I hope I have cleared some things up.
1. If you are already an established and factory trained tech for other brands there is a techincian crossover that is available.
2. A techincian cert and an tech diving cert are two very different animals
3. The tech diving cert pre req has already been touched on by a few posters and the acceptable ones are defined. Just ask your your HOG instructor. A TDI nitrox course is a go. A PADI Nitrox is not. An SDI nitrox is not. The TDI nitrox course goes into more theory regarding partial pressures and risks of using high O2 that recreational ones for the most part only barley touch on now. ANY overhead cert is ok as HOG considers any overhead environment a techincal dive. Staged Deco - Overhead, Advanced Wreck with Penetration - Overhead, Ice - Overhead, Cave - Overhead. I defer to Chris on any thing I'm not familiar with or have a question about.
4. The student is required to dive the reg as part of the course. Originally it was set up as a two day with the second day for diving. Logistics in many areas made that impractical but the student can still be required to dive the reg and submit the log from that dive. I plan on putting on a course sometime this spring and luckily have a shop pool and local site available.
5. The requirement for a tech diving cert does have some idea that anyone who has gone to the effort to get one would hopefully be someone who has some vested interest in diving regularly, pays attention to details, and is understands the risks that are involved in this activity. I agree that there are many recreational divers that fit this as well and that may be taken into account at some point but for right now there had to be some way to set a minimum. This is the one that was chosen.
6. There is a manual for the HOG reg and it is given to the student who takes the class. I suppose it is inevitable that some day it will make it to the net but as an author myself I can see why it is not yet being released. Perhaps it will at some point but that's not my call and I will not release the copy I have. I will have to purchase copies for my students when I put the course on and that's the way it should be.
7. The standards I have for the course were set by HOG and TDI. Those are the ones I need to go by. They spell out tools, materials, and the additional subjects that are to be covered. Many mfg reg courses do not go back into basic diving physics, physiology, gas laws, blending techniques, and dive planning. This course does. It briefly reviews those and a few other academic items before actually getting into the reg. As with the Reg Savvy book. How is not enough. The why is also covered. There is supposed to be a good understanding of the theory behind regs and regs in general so that it is not just a tear down/reassemble course.
8. Finally I need to reiterate this. The course for the consumer DOES NOT authorize you to work on other people's regs. Only regs personally owned by you.
I know I have not addressed all the points brought up but I hope I have cleared some things up.
Similar threads
