HOG Equipment service class report

[Aqua-Andy]

This topic keeps coming up and Chris has responded many times. As Chris says HOG gear is aimed at the tech diver, so that would be someone with a tech cert. He belies as a tech diver you should know how your gear works and how to service said gear yourself. So if you follow his philosophy if you are diving HOG regs you would already have a tech cert or are looking to go in that direction. I believe as a gear manufacturer Chris is sticking his neck out and bucking a long held industry trend but he is doing whet he believes needs to be done to keep himself and his dealers safe from lawsuits. If you are a recreational diver Chris has the Edge brand and he has stated that he will not be offering training for these regs. Would I like to see Chris publish an online manual? YES I WOULD!! You can download DiveRite manuals right off there website and purchase parts freely and I think it would be great if Chris would do this also, but at this time I guess it is what it is. Chris has put out the exploded views of his regs, I think that is great but I would like a list of torque specs to go along with that. I would love to take the repair course, I already have 90% of the required materials and several tech courses but as of now there is no one in the North East to offer the course. I am praying that the course is offered at either Boston Sea Rovers or Beneath The Sea, Ill have to keep my fingers crossed. As of now I have been doing my own service on HOG regs so yes a manual would be great but I would be happy with torque specs. I think HOG regs are an excellent product at a great price point and hopefully a sign of thing to come in the scuba industry(I doubt it though) so I will continue to purchase Edge/HOG products in the future. If the powers to be are listening PLEASE offer a reg repair class in the NE so I can attend the class or offer a webinar at the very least. I am willing to travel some for the class but with a wife and three kids, mortgage and work it's pretty hard to travel far from home.

Chris: if I have misrepresented anything you have previously posted please PM me and I will change my post immediately.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

This topic keeps coming up and Chris has responded many times. As Chris says HOG gear is aimed at the tech diver, so that would be someone with a tech cert. He belies as a tech diver you should know how your gear works and how to service said gear yourself. So if you follow his philosophy if you are diving HOG regs you would already have a tech cert or are looking to go in that direction.

This explanation clarifies nothing in my mind.
So only tech divers should know how their gear works?
I'd argue that all divers (recreational, tech divers, and everyone in between) should know how their gear works.
At least that's my approach to the sport...

The manufacturer is free to stipulate conditions under which people can obtain training on gear servicing.
However, when those conditions are, at face value, somewhat arbitrary, the manufacturer should expect to field a lot of questions from customers/potential customers.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Ok Jim, I would not want to argue about the depth of the class concerning Nitrox, But let me ask you this. What in the class has help your with servicing a regulator? Don't get me wrong I will most likely take the class and be smarter for it, then take the reg repair class and self service going forward. The other route could be to find a fellow diver with HOGS and learn from them. That of course IMHO is more dangerous then taking the Repair class without a Technical dive skill.


Highflier

For me personally nothing to be honest. I was already certed thru Oceanic, and trained on Sherwood and TUSA as well. Any tech class will help as it imparts a greater understanding of just what this sport involves and what the risks are. Speaking only for myself I see those who take a technical or overhead class as being more detail oriented than many OW divers out there today. It more or less says to me that this is someone who is serious about the sport and dedicated to learning. That they will carry that same attention to detail and willingness to learn over to servicing their own gear. I have seen a number of strictly recreational certed divers that I would not have allowed out of the pool do some pretty boneheaded stuff. Not that tech divers at times do not. These recreational level divers exhibit qualities or a lack of qualities that would make me seriously question their approach to taking care of their own gear. Requiring a tech cert is one way and maybe not the only or best way to insure they will do ok with servicing a reg but it's the one right now that is in force. So that's what I have to go by.

And it does not have to be a TDI nitrox course as the way to get in. Overhead training, advanced wreck penetration, a GUE tech pass, any number of certs will qualify. But as I'm going thru the TDI nitrox class I see what sets it apart. It's the nitrox class I would want to take knowing what I know now. Or the SEI class. Actually doing a comparison the SEI class is more like the TDI adv nitrox class in content. But again it is not billed as a tech class so it does not qualify.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Bubbletrubble, I think you've hit on what had me a bit puzzled when I started my thread/query last year. I can see that HOG regs are aimed at tech divers, and it seems reasonable to me that some/many tech divers would have a need or interest in how their gear works. So giving them the option of learning how to service their regs seems like a really good idea and a great offering.

What I don't understand is why that would lead to excluding interested, non-tech recreational divers. I would think that if a rec-diver wanted to buy HOG regs, and then invest the money, time, and effort to take the reg servicing class that the attitude would be "more power to you!" instead of taking an exclusionary stance.

Additionally there seems to have been some confusion/variation as to what constitutes "tech training" in terms of qualifying to take the class.

Granted, as you say, a company/owner has the right to structure it however they want to. HOG is doing good things for divers, and too, is obviously doing very well without my approval

 

[Blue Sparkle]

I see those who take a technical or overhead class as being more detail oriented than many OW divers out there today.

Many of my friends would probably like to disagree with you on this one (since apparently I can be annoyingly detail-oriented at times ).

My guess is that those "un-detail-oriented" OW divers would have no interest in ever expending the time/money/effort to take the class, and so they would self-select right out of the picture -- leaving the truly interested, detail-oriented ones (like me) wanting to sign up.

And it does not have to be a TDI nitrox course as the way to get in. .... a GUE tech pass, any number of certs will qualify.

Even within the "tech training requirement," a GUE [Fundamentals] tech pass seems pretty stringent. I mean, not that divers shouldn't try to educate themselves and improve, but it seems like a GUE Fundamentals Rec pass, for example, is still pretty technical? (Maybe not? But the tech pass does require backmounted doubles.)

I do realize you are not the one setting up the rules, and by now I worry that I sound cranky. I probably would have just "ignored" this whole issue after my initial query last year (when I was reg shopping); but then I continue to run across threads where regulator discussions come up, and maybe I'll already be contributing (as far as I can), when HOG regs come up, as does the reg servicing class (or the yoke/DIN query).

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Just as an aside I received a PM from a poster in this thread that required a response but their PM box is full and I'm not going to invade their email with my response. So to the poster who PM'd me. Clean out your inbox.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

deleted double post

 

[highflier]

I am not trying to be critical of HOG, as they have at least taken the first step to support users servicing their own equipment. I also understand that there are ppl out there that most likely should not service their own gear. Be it becuase they are just in it for the fun and not really truely taking things serious thus making it dangerous. But there is also tech divers that I bet lack mechanical skills to properly service equipment. If HOG is listening, and they probably are. Here are a few comments for you.

1) Good job, Both making affordable, good equipment.
2) Creating a path for self service.

What I would like to see.
Expand the service class to involve more detail I.E. Rebuild rig serveral times to make it more second nature. Rebuild practices, Maybe how to organise and layout parts on table as you disassemble to avoid errors due to a 1-2 year interval since last service Etc. (Some of this may be done as I would not know since I have not taken the class)

Do what ever else is needed to weed out the unqualified ppl. But do so in a way that does not require unrelated requirements.

Offer a official HOG rebuild tools kit. Including everything including IP gauge, Wrenches, O-ring picks, add a Lint free towel and chemicals etc. make this kit part of the class supplies (as a option). Of course now the course teacher would use the exact tools that come in the kit, No more no less. by the way the tools kit does not need to be made by HOG, it could be just a collection of Craftmen tools etc....

Just my .02

Highflier

 

[ams511]

Many of my friends would probably like to disagree with you on this one (since apparently I can be annoyingly detail-oriented at times). My guess is that those "un-detail-oriented" OW divers would have no interest in ever expending the time/money/effort to take the class, and so they would self-select right out of the picture -- leaving the truly interested, detail-oriented ones (like me) wanting to sign up.

There are exceptions but Jim is right that the average tech diver is more detail oriented and understands the risks better than the average rec diver. They bring more maturity to the course. They also have more regs and will probably service them more often because of the diving they do. As the OP mentioned, servicing one reg every two years is not really worth it as you will forget what to do over time.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

There are exceptions but Jim is right that the average tech diver is more detail oriented and understands the risks better than the average rec diver. They bring more maturity to the course. They also have more regs and will probably service them more often because of the diving they do. As the OP mentioned, servicing one reg every two years is not really worth it as you will forget what to do over time.

I hear what you are saying but...

1) Does that mean it is logical to exclude interested, detail-oriented, mechanically-inclined recreational divers?

2) What about rec divers who have years of experience?

3) "not really worth it" is subjective to the reg owner/class-taker, I would think**.

Again, it's not my company, and obviously if I wanted to start my own I could (well, maybe not with my business acumen :blush. And I can completely see the focus on Tech divers - that makes sense! What I don't really get is the exclusion of interested rec divers who would be happy to buy the regs, the parts, and the tools and manuals -- plus pay for the class, and put in the time and effort*.

I may only put a new hard drive in my computer, rebuild a carburetor, or change the rear-axle in my car once in a long while (or never again, I hope, in the latter case ), but I am capable of doing a precise, careful job -- as long as I have the tools, parts, and service manual/specifications. Hands-on, expert instruction the first time is definitely a big plus, in my opinion.

Blue Sparkle

*And conversely, I can't see a disinterested, non-mechanically inclined, non-detail-oriented recreational diver being the least bit motivated to spend all that money and time for a class, so they probably wouldn't bother.

**And too, I could see some divers taking the class who don't plan to rebuilt a fleet of regs every year, but who instead want to really understand how their regs work, plus be able to do something like adjust a second stage in the field. Also it can help to decide who is or isn't a good tech, and/or understand what they are saying to you when you do bring your regs in. Something like knowing how to work on your car, but still taking it to a mechanic for the big stuff (while being a savvy customer).

PS: And who knows - maybe some of those now reg-rebuilding rec divers would feel a pull into the tech world?